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effinhell
Guest
So, with the word on the streets that FD and AT are cancelled coz we is skint (unless approved by a 2*) what is the future of FD - staff rides n all...?
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I`m Ron Burgundy?
Corporal
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I hope so, personally I always thought that FD was the biggest most extravagant drain on resources going - you cant tell me that going on the lash in Norway or Germany for 5 days and learning about some campaign or other actually makes you better at your job? Sure it is great as an aside, but that is all it is, a nicety, an interest.
Saw the paper this aft, it would appear there has been a tadge of an overspend at Air: thus a bit of a moratorium on any FD that involves T & S so yep, everything really. Same thing happened 18 months ago, I'm sure "normal" service will resume shortly.
DT_Xtremez_19:Yep its true at present, also the subsidy from Cranwell will go down, so its all about value for money.
I am bringing a Staff ride in for 3 days-2 nights in France/Ypres for under £300 per head.
Thats better value than the £1250 plus T&S my lot are spending to send me on a civvy course for 3 days!!!!!
I am bringing a Staff ride in for 3 days-2 nights in France/Ypres for under £300 per head.
Thats better value than the £1250 plus T&S my lot are spending to send me on a civvy course for 3 days!!!!!
C
Comms_Lad
Guest
I have never understood how a staff ride to a battlefield with copious amounts of drinking could be considered Force Development, are you learning anything to do with your job? However hasnt stopped me going on them lol
We have done paint balling as force development, military skills and that was fun, also followed by copious amounts of Alcohol in the bar afterwards. Surely that is more force development
We have done paint balling as force development, military skills and that was fun, also followed by copious amounts of Alcohol in the bar afterwards. Surely that is more force development
I`m Ron Burgundy?
Corporal
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Exactly, I once went on a staff ride to Waterloo and although I thought it was informative and mildy interesting, it had absolutely no effect on my job and performance at work whatsoever. It still baffles me how there is crumbling accomodation, kit shortages and the like but there is still money to fund these jollies, because that is essentially what they are, largely p1ss-ups with a bit of irrelevant learning thrown in - if there is time to fit it in between hangovers.
You never went on one of mine then!!!!
It has to be managed, but its a great value way of developing people, especially as the schools have given up on history. Young SAC's going on their first OOA's have a chance to understand the big picture and what fcuk ups led us to where we are.
Yes at the end of the day we had a beer, but not a Pi** up.
It has to be managed, but its a great value way of developing people, especially as the schools have given up on history. Young SAC's going on their first OOA's have a chance to understand the big picture and what fcuk ups led us to where we are.
Yes at the end of the day we had a beer, but not a Pi** up.
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Fcuking hell lads, it's a bit of fun, a perk of the job and a great way to research and present a bit of military history to your peers (if you do it properly).
Don't whinge abut things like FD, because it's precisely this kind of attitude that's led to the steady erosion of Forces 'perks' and is rapidly turning the RAF into nothing more than a mediocre job!!
I've got to agree with Monty, and FD shouldn't only be about beer. It's supposed to be about expanding your horizons and learning about yourself and your collegues. If it's not then some of you are quite right that the particular trip you are on is probably a waste of time and shouldn't be funded.
TrickyTree
Sergeant
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First sensible comments in this thread.....
I've done two staff rides in the last six years, one based on Operation OVERLORD and subsequent events, the other centred around the escape form Stalag Luft III, an event which I regard as being as important an operation as the Royal Air Force ever mounted during the Second World War and one which I further believe doesn't always get the recognition for this that it deserves.
The thing is both of these trips greatly enhanced my appreciation of the efforts and sacrifices of those who wore blue before us. It does no harm to know a little of our heritage and history, to find out, really, who we are and why we are the way that we are. It's not our Air Force at the end of the day, millions came before us, millions (let's hope) will come after us. We are merely the current holders of the torch and our time will come to pass it on to the next generation.
I've not expressed myself terribly well, but if anyone would like to take issue, I might ask you to do some research on what a black jersey means to a New Zealand rugby player or what the baggy green means to an Australian cricketer. I think you might find reflected exactly the same sentiments as I have tried to reflect.
Staff rides are important - no, they don't necessarily make us better at mending poorly aeroplanes or whatever it is that we each do but I argue they definitely make us more aware of our history, heritage and ethos and in so doing definitely make us better and more rounded officers, airmen and airwomen.
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I think an ignorance of military history is quite prevalent in the RAF. How many LACs could tell you the history of their squadron (or even care).
Contrast this to the most junior Matelot or Pongo, who usually know a lot of history of their ship/regiment/unit and usually have a great sense of pride in it too....
TrickyTree
Sergeant
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You're right, and it's wrong, and edicts from Command or wherever stopping us doing relevant FD don't help. However do us old sweats, commanders and leaders at all levels, do enough to encourage pride in uniform, Squadron and Service? Probably not, and I confess I'm as guilty as any.
Perhaps we should make it part C of TAT's then, they would have to do some research, this might kick start some interest if nothing else.
Fully agree with you.
That's exactly why SR are there....however we as a Force have to be careful where we go .....did you hear about the SR that was planned for Pearl Harbour...subsequently binned as it was costing a fortune!
I mean you can imagine the headlines now...flyboys in hawaii...costing xxx amount of public money while our troops etc etc....
Of course SR have to be approved and I can imagine there being a tightening of purses from now on......but I think it important that our JR are allowed to go and research our history etc more than some other ranks...
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The WO at SEPWTS (PWTS) when I went through training would ask random (easy) RAF related questions to random trainees every parade morning. It was shocking how many didn't even know when the RAF was formed!!
Something needs to happen to get back some service ethos and pride, but when you've got Air Officers who have no interest in the RAF and blatant disregard for its history, what hope has a shiny new LAC got?
They did all the right things at RTS (trip to Hendon etc) but during Phase 2 training the whole service ethos and history sort of tailed off.
It was only through personal interest that I continued to learn about the history of not just the RAF, but the UK Armed Forces in general.
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I would ask what Pearl Harbor had to do with the UKs Armed Forces?
A degree of sensibility has to apply when planning staff rides.
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I’ve done FD at Pearl Harbor, did the full tour which included a visit to the USS Arizona Memorial. No, not a lot to do with the RAF I admit, but very interesting none the less.
By the way, I was there on Det at the time, very nice swan song!
In days gone by it was known as GSK (general service knowledge) and you were examined on it.
GSK was an element,if I recall correctly,of the old part 1 promotion examination.
The onus was on the individual to learn about their service. Thursday evenings were put aside for GSK and trade training. Lessons were given by Corporals and attendance was mandatory.
Perhaps something has been lost along the way. Certainly it would seem to be a lot cheaper than shipping people here there and everywhere to produce the same result.
GSK was an element,if I recall correctly,of the old part 1 promotion examination.
The onus was on the individual to learn about their service. Thursday evenings were put aside for GSK and trade training. Lessons were given by Corporals and attendance was mandatory.
Perhaps something has been lost along the way. Certainly it would seem to be a lot cheaper than shipping people here there and everywhere to produce the same result.