Apprenticeship advice..

[TeetersOnHeels]

Son will be 16 in Oct. Taking exams next summer.
He's wanting to join the RAF, but unsure wether to go down the apprenticeship route, or apply for the trade he's interested in as an LAC.
Just wondered if anyone had any tips/advice on the differences between the two.

 

[Downsizer]

What RAF apprenticeship route are you referring to? And what trade is he interested in?

 

[TeetersOnHeels]

Hi.
He's looking at ICT technician/ICT Specialist.

 

[Downsizer]

Thats not an apprenticeship as such though....

 

[TeetersOnHeels]

Hi.
He was looking at this section on the careers website.

As an ICT Specialist you will be enrolled on an Advanced Apprenticeship in Communications
Technologies Telecomms and you will complete both the BTEC National Award at Level 3 in
Communications Technology and the Key Skills Level 2 elements incorporating Information​

Communications Technology, Communications and Application of Number.

This appears to be a 3yr course, and the trade training looks to be 11mths?

 

[Drill Bit]

Thats not an apprenticeship as such though....

Why is it not an apprenticeship as such? That's exactly what it is.

 

[Stevienics]

Well, it's 11 months of trade training then the qualifications to be completed after at the first unit, so not technically an apprenticeship, but more attractive for it.

The old Appo's missed out on over 2 years of JT pay, simply as they were under training for the full 3 years....... that really sucked donkey balls

 

[Drill Bit]

Well, it's 11 months of trade training then the qualifications to be completed after at the first unit, so not technically an apprenticeship, but more attractive for it.

The old Appo's missed out on over 2 years of JT pay, simply as they were under training for the full 3 years....... that really sucked donkey balls

As employees, apprentices earn a wage and work alongside experienced staff to gain job-specific skills. Off the job, usually on a day-release basis, apprentices receive training to work towards nationally recognised qualifications.

I suppose you could say the fact they are not day release would mean that it's "technically" not an apprenticeship, but that's splitting the finest hairs. They receive an advanced apprenticeship qualification after completion of additional units and experience not covered as part of their Trade Training (essentially a consolidated day release).

 

[Stevienics]

As employees, apprentices earn a wage and work alongside experienced staff to gain job-specific skills. Off the job, usually on a day-release basis, apprentices receive training to work towards nationally recognised qualifications.

Nope. There are thousands of us who didn't work alongside anyone but each other until we were booted out the door of Cosford or Halton. I think we got one week on an Op unit so we knew that planes really did fly.

It may well be in planet outside, but in the Air Force, it's not an Apprenticeship - otherwise it would be called an "Apprenticeship" and annnounced with bells, whistles and a bloody awful pipe band and 3 years of lousy pay and dismal food.

Some distinction.

 

[Drill Bit]

Nope. There are thousands of us who didn't work alongside anyone but each other until we were booted out the door of Cosford or Halton. I think we got one week on an Op unit so we knew that planes really did fly.

It may well be in planet outside, but in the Air Force, it's not an Apprenticeship - otherwise it would be called an "Apprenticeship" and annnounced with bells, whistles and a bloody awful pipe band and 3 years of lousy pay and dismal food.

Some distinction.

Mate, do some homework; that's exactly what the RAF are calling it:

http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers/jobs/apprenticeships/

Take a look at the link.

Yeah, you don't get when you leave Cosfod but as I explained in an earlier post, further experience and completion of other units are required to complete the apprenticeship.

 

[TeetersOnHeels]

Thanks for the replies.
He's been told he can make an appointment at the AFCO when he has his predicted grades early next year.
He was just a bit unsure as to if the 3yrs would be solid day to day apprentice training, or , like someone mentioned, he would be at a base to continue to work towards his qualification.

 

[Stevienics]

Ahhhhhhh. Got it

Take a mechs course, a first tour, then a fitters course , add an NVQ and change the name of the old package to an apprenticeship.

But you and I both know. It isn't.

 

[Drill Bit]

Thanks for the replies.
He's been told he can make an appointment at the AFCO when he has his predicted grades early next year.
He was just a bit unsure as to if the 3yrs would be solid day to day apprentice training, or , like someone mentioned, he would be at a base to continue to work towards his qualification.

He will do 11 months trade traing and that is solid. After this he will leave as an LAC before shortly being promoted to SAC (after passing a couple of assessments - should be a formality).

As an ICT Specialist you will be enrolled on an Advanced Apprenticeship in CommunicationsTechnologies Telecomms and you will complete both the BTEC National Award at Level 3 in Communications Technology and the Key Skills Level 2 elements incorporating Information Communications Technology, Communications and Application of Number.

The BTEC National Award in Communications Technology is the Technical Certificate element of the Advanced Apprenticeship. The National Award is a Level 3 qualification, equivalent to A – Levels in the National Qualifications Framework. It is highly valued by universities, further education colleges and employers alike. It gives apprentices the specialist and practical knowledge that focuses on particular aspects of employment in the relevant sector. It provides
a more practical, real-world approach to learning supported with a key theoretical background. The National Award at No1 Radio School covers areas such as electronic workshop skills, health,
safety and welfare, Cisco networking and computer maintenance.
The third element of your Advanced Apprenticeship is the Communications Technology Professional level 3 NVQ. You will achieve up to 50% of the NVQ during your training at Cosford, which is deemed a realistic working environment; the remainder of the NVQ is then focused within the work place (vocational). During your first year out of training, candidates will undergo various trade related tasks and complete the NVQ by undertaking observed assessments within an IT environment, closely
monitored by qualified A1 Assessors.​

Duration: 3 years

The apprenticeship will not be handed to him and he will need to complete under his own steam and using some of his own free time. With some dedication it will be no problem; and he'll get a nice pay rise at the end of it.

 

[Drill Bit]

Ahhhhhhh. Got it

Take a mechs course, a first tour, then a fitters course , add an NVQ and change the name of the old package to an apprenticeship.

But you and I both know. It isn't.

Ah I see were are coming from now; the OP asked for info on ICT Apprenticeships which does differ to TG1 Mech/Av apprenticeships. Differ as in, there is no "fitters" course for ICTs and they leave Cosford as "technicians" (pinch of salt on that one).

 

[Ex-Splitter and Proud]

Ah I see were are coming from now; the OP asked for info on ICT Apprenticeships which does differ to TG1 Mech/Av apprenticeships. Differ as in, there is no "fitters" course for ICTs and they leave Cosford as "technicians" (pinch of salt on that one).

OK - but Halton/Cosford "Apprentices" left as "technicians" from 1976.

I think we have to recognise that old style apprenticeships died off in the mid 80s - in all industries. Employers had lost the appetite for them. The new (? - not really new any longer) re-badged modern apprenticeships may not be the same as those of old, I guess, but some would argue that they're more structured, lead to more (if not better) formal qualifications and are more attractive to young people than the older schemes may have been (if they still existed).

The OP asked for some guidance, it's a pity that so many posters have seen fit to turn this into a bitch-fest slagging off the training available.

"It weren't like this when I were a lad.... "

Utter b0ll0cks!DT_Xtremez_14:


To the OP:
Is it what your son WANTS? That's for him (and you) to judge
Is it what he needs? Again, mostly that's down to you.
Will he enjoy it? Will it be rewarding? That's down to him.


But, rest assured, the RAF still has an awful lot to offer!DT_Xtremez_30:


(From an ex-Halton Appo - happy to have been a technician!!)

 

[Stevienics]

The trainings great; it's the rebranding that's utter nonsense.

As for "It weren't like this when I were a lad.... "..........your words, not mine.

Again, the posts you must read Skywalker.

 

[Vman921]

Ah I see were are coming from now; the OP asked for info on ICT Apprenticeships which does differ to TG1 Mech/Av apprenticeships. Differ as in, there is no "fitters" course for ICTs and they leave Cosford as "technicians" (pinch of salt on that one).

They dont leave as technicians, they leave as LAC's. They are called Tech all in name. The don't get high pay band until they have completed their TAT's which then they will get their SAC's and once they have completed all modules of their "apprenticeships".
If they drag their heels on completing the modules then they stay SAC low pay band not SAC(T).
DT_Xtremez_30:

 

[vim_fuego]

This is causing some consternation amongst members which is muddying a genuine thread so if I may:

ap·pren·tice (-prnts)
n.
1. One bound by legal agreement to work for another for a specific amount of time in return for instruction in a trade, art, or business.
2. One who is learning a trade or occupation, especially as a member of a labor union.
3. A beginner; a learner.
tr.v. ap·pren·ticed, ap·pren·tic·ing, ap·pren·tic·es
To place or take on as a beginner or learner.

To the OP...The word 'apprentice' holds a hallowed meaning in the RAF...Up until the early 90's we put boys of 16 through an excellent but in some ways harsh 3 year training regime. They stayed together in the same block at Halton or Cosford as an entry...It took some character to get through which is why some rightly object to re-use of the word for a course that can, due to our training resources, never really match up to what was really the premier aircraft engineering apprenticeship in the world...

As you can see from the definition of the word above the new courses branded in this way fit the criteria...

My 2 cents on the subject is that it will be a good course that will prepare him in most ways for his time out of the training environment...he'll need something about him to progress through it which is why I'm wondering why his dad is on here asking him questions on his behalf...he can type I imagine...it's time for him to start getting into character and researching this stuff for himself!

 

[Barf vader]

This is causing some consternation amongst members which is muddying a genuine thread so if I may:

ap·pren·tice (-prnts)
n.
1. One bound by legal agreement to work for another for a specific amount of time in return for instruction in a trade, art, or business.
2. One who is learning a trade or occupation, especially as a member of a labor union.
3. A beginner; a learner.
tr.v. ap·pren·ticed, ap·pren·tic·ing, ap·pren·tic·es
To place or take on as a beginner or learner.

To the OP...The word 'apprentice' holds a hallowed meaning in the RAF...Up until the early 90's we put boys of 16 through an excellent but in some ways harsh 3 year training regime. They stayed together in the same block at Halton or Cosford as an entry...It took some character to get through which is why some rightly object to re-use of the word for a course that can, due to our training resources, never really match up to what was really the premier aircraft engineering apprenticeship in the world...

As you can see from the definition of the word above the new courses branded in this way fit the criteria...

My 2 cents on the subject is that it will be a good course that will prepare him in most ways for his time out of the training environment...he'll need something about him to progress through it which is why I'm wondering why his dad is on here asking him questions on his behalf...he can type I imagine...it's time for him to start getting into character and researching this stuff for himself!

Well said that man DT_Xtremez_30:

 

[TeetersOnHeels]

Thanks for all the clarifications, and advice.

'My 2 cents on the subject is that it will be a good course that will prepare him in most ways for his time out of the training environment...he'll need something about him to progress through it which is why I'm wondering why his dad is on here asking him questions on his behalf...he can type I imagine...it's time for him to start getting into character and researching this stuff for himself!'

If his dad 'TeetersOnHeels', I'd be getting a bit worried - lol!..Anyhow dad's not on the scene (nothing to do with his taste in shoes..) I'm mum, and was curious to find out more about where my sons interests lie when he leaves school.