BSc Logistic Management

[I'm a liar]

Who do you feel should be entitled to do a BSc in Logistics Management, through the RAF at UIN cost, at Lincoln Uni. Should it be just the Junior Officers, who are already doing them and continue to have it given to them.

Officers generally do a shorter term of service than an airman. So is this a BSc for the Officers to ensure they can bin out at their OPTION POINT
with a good crack at a job.

Shouldn't SNCOs be given a crack at this, if they have the relevant qualifications?

If the stats show that a SNCO stays longer than the JO's thast are getting the course, why isn't it given to the seniors aswell, who would bring more value to the branch and service?

If it alredy is given to seniors throught the Cranwel, Halton, Lincs Uni seminars, then sorry.

 

[Drill Bit]

Who do you feel should be entitled to do a BSc in Logistics Management, through the RAF at UIN cost, at Lincoln Uni. Should it be just the Junior Officers, who are already doing them and continue to have it given to them.

Officers generally do a shorter term of service than an airman. So is this a BSc for the Officers to ensure they can bin out at their OPTION POINT
with a good crack at a job.

Shouldn't SNCOs be given a crack at this, if they have the relevant qualifications?

If the stats show that a SNCO stays longer than the JO's thast are getting the course, why isn't it given to the seniors aswell, who would bring more value to the branch and service?

If it alredy is given to seniors throught the Cranwel, Halton, Lincs Uni seminars, then sorry.

Where did you find this nugget?

 

[Robby]

Nothing is given for free!

Nothing is given for free!

As someone who paid over £6000 to gain a BSc (Hons) in the Management of Logistics with Anglia Ruskin University I have quite strong opinions on this! The key factor is that no body is GIVEN a BSc what ever the RAF offer as APEL has to be accredited and accepted by an academic board, in this way they are not devalued by the constant debates on falling standards ie A levels & GCSE's. Although I do wonder sometimes about the quality and breath of Basic Logistic Officer Training!

What I believe should be required is a reasonable Return of Service from those who are funded centrally so the Air Force gets some benefit back. But I also believe the funding should be open to all NCO's and Junior Officers and the applications are vetted/approved by the trade sponsor/Branch sponsor and the funding is duly awarded to the individual.

The same argument also applies to those wishing to undertake a Masters qualification but that's a whole different argument!

 

[nom8s]

Something for "free"

Something for "free"

A subject dear to my heart

For example:
On a personal level I started right at the bottom. From NVQ to City & Guilds to Degree. (BSc (Hons)) Logistics Management
I emailed the university and enrolled on the basis of prior education, so the course is not rank dictated, it is the powers that be that would prefer to keep it perceived that way.
I have but two pieces of silver on my shoulder, yet according to the trade gurus I don't qualify for civilian accreditation because of my rank. Don't figure???

Why are trade specific qualifications accredited to a rank?
There are so many long serving service guys and girls, who qualify for accreditation and would thus be qualified to tackle higher education. However, the trade sponsors and trainers deem it necessary to discriminate on reasons of rank. It isn't always the fault of the individual, that their promotion has not been forth coming.

Of course I got of my own backside and sorted my membership out and was eagerly accepted into the CILT world.

I have been fortunate to receive funding for my degree and have returned a level of service that benefits the service, but yet again I have had to do most of the begging. The service seems unwilling to be proactive and observe that most individuals are only too keen to take on extra curricular activities if encouraged and shown the way

We all have to rejoin society at some point or other, so everyone should be afforded the same chance of educational enhancement, but the powers that be should publicise more as to what is available, and keep rank out of it.

 

[I'm a liar]

nom8s, I think that is a superb first post. When you read and scroll through the million other trade forums, everyone is saying grab the qual's because you'll need them. How many people are taking that advice.

For you and your rank, I take my hat off to someone who got off it and did something about it.

TS a grip of this chap and use him as an example.

I hope I get to work with more people like you one day. As you say, all ranks bar none should be given the same opertunity and support.​

 

[nom8s]

Appreciated

Appreciated

I'm a liar, I appreciate your kind reply

What is a further shame about rank and courses is that so many will look at your shoulder (by that I mean your rank) before responding, and thats it, straight away you are in a personality box.

perhaps this is for a different thread?

 

[T93]

Didn't you realise that higher rank automatically grants you higher integrity, knowledge and intelligence?

Unfortunately, the weight of detritis in the higher echelons of the RAF means we will never be given any credit at the bottom for fear of proving their uselessness.

*********

And of course you are not being cynical! DT_Xtremez_30:

Nothing changes eh. twas always the same.

BTW: TMG, I recall you had an interview/possible offer of employment may beckon for you? Anway, good luck mate. Wish you all the best...best foot forward and all that.

 

[T93]

Cheers bud. Interview should be comming in the next week.

I'll be leaving the country as well as the RAF if I get the job and as there are very few of us fully qualified (I know the other 3), my chances are above average.

*********

Nice.

It has been quite a few years for myself since I last worked in the UK.

 

[BJW]

As someone who paid over £6000 to gain a BSc (Hons) in the Management of Logistics with Anglia Ruskin University I have quite strong opinions on this! The key factor is that no body is GIVEN a BSc what ever the RAF offer as APEL has to be accredited and accepted by an academic board, in this way they are not devalued by the constant debates on falling standards ie A levels & GCSE's. Although I do wonder sometimes about the quality and breath of Basic Logistic Officer Training!

What I believe should be required is a reasonable Return of Service from those who are funded centrally so the Air Force gets some benefit back. But I also believe the funding should be open to all NCO's and Junior Officers and the applications are vetted/approved by the trade sponsor/Branch sponsor and the funding is duly awarded to the individual.

The same argument also applies to those wishing to undertake a Masters qualification but that's a whole different argument!

This is a double edged sword though Robby. First of all I should state that rank should never dictate what subject or level any individual is permitted/funded to study at - that should be dictated by competence and the individuals chances of completion. Rank never has been, and never will be an accurate measure of competence or intelligence.

However, we are so constrained by MoD regulations that there is actually very little use for a BSc or MSc and an almost non existent scope for innovative logistics (supply chain) practices that may be learned through study. Any long term gain from these qualifications would likely not be fully (or even partially) realised until the individual left the Service - and to be fair anyone who has the drive and determination to gain a degree would be unlikely to be content to spend the next couple of years counting rivets in Tech Stores!

Now, if someone could devise a BSc in JSP886 (and JSP332, 895, 317 etc. etc) interpretation and application ....................................

 

[busby1971]

Bringing in New Ideas

Bringing in New Ideas

In doing exteranal courses we as an organisation can bring in outside ideas into our own processes, even the MOD can change.

One of the problems with organisations like the MoD and Services is that we are isolated from outsiders by recruiting young and promoting from within, anyone who does courses like these can bring in new processes no matter what their rank if they get their suggestions written correctly and reach the right ear.

Sorry not a stacker but somebody who has invested 10s of thousands in my own education and have my final very big bill next year. I've completed many a gem or provided suggestions to manning/air command (some of which have stuck) to improve processes and policies.

 

[MontyPlumbs]

I was in the same situation, I couldn't do NDT because I wasn't a SNCO.

]Never heard so much crap in my life, if I can pass the course and get my ticket, what has rank got to do with it?

Sometimes the services are way behind when it comes to cultivating talent and people who want to better themselves.

 

[BJW]

In doing exteranal courses we as an organisation can bring in outside ideas into our own processes, even the MOD can change.

One of the problems with organisations like the MoD and Services is that we are isolated from outsiders by recruiting young and promoting from within, anyone who does courses like these can bring in new processes no matter what their rank if they get their suggestions written correctly and reach the right ear.

Sorry not a stacker but somebody who has invested 10s of thousands in my own education and have my final very big bill next year. I've completed many a gem or provided suggestions to manning/air command (some of which have stuck) to improve processes and policies.

Agree in principle with what you are saying mate and the fact is that the MoD is crap at nurturing talent and encouraging (large scale) innovation. In the stacker world even the smallest suggested change (improvement) to the "system" is met with so many bureaucratic hurdles that death normally comes swifter! By "system" I am referring to big picture stuff that a BSc holder would be likely to identify and be able to address, not the minor frustrations that we experience at unit level every day.

 

[Robby]

This is a double edged sword though Robby. First of all I should state that rank should never dictate what subject or level any individual is permitted/funded to study at - that should be dictated by competence and the individuals chances of completion. Rank never has been, and never will be an accurate measure of competence or intelligence.

However, we are so constrained by MoD regulations that there is actually very little use for a BSc or MSc and an almost non existent scope for innovative logistics (supply chain) practices that may be learned through study. Any long term gain from these qualifications would likely not be fully (or even partially) realised until the individual left the Service - and to be fair anyone who has the drive and determination to gain a degree would be unlikely to be content to spend the next couple of years counting rivets in Tech Stores!

I fully appreciate this BJW, but if the MoD puts so little store by such qualifications why do they continue to push them to recent Logistic Officer Graduates and almost require MSc/MBA's as a given to achieve Wg Cdr/Gp Capt?
As a trade we now have a cadre of NCO's and WO's who have 'developed themselves' and are not used in any constructive way to better the trade/Service, surely a missed opportunity to bring together hands on experience with proven/measured academic learning and knowledge, no commercial would look this gift horse in the mouth and say no we don't it! In particular as we try to bring the three Service logistical systems together into one way of doing business?

Just a thoughtDT_Xtremez_30:

 

[BJW]

I fully appreciate this BJW, but if the MoD puts so little store by such qualifications why do they continue to push them to recent Logistic Officer Graduates and almost require MSc/MBA's as a given to achieve Wg Cdr/Gp Capt?
As a trade we now have a cadre of NCO's and WO's who have 'developed themselves' and are not used in any constructive way to better the trade/Service, surely a missed opportunity to bring together hands on experience with proven/measured academic learning and knowledge, no commercial would look this gift horse in the mouth and say no we don't it! In particular as we try to bring the three Service logistical systems together into one way of doing business?

Just a thoughtDT_Xtremez_30:

I am not sure what quals are being pushed to LOT students, but a glance at the Air Force List for Logistics officers (wg cdr and below)reveals only 69 of the 607 listed as having post nominals - perhaps someone has decided to improve (!) the gene pool. You are right that those who get off their backsides and obtain quals are not exploited and perhaps this is a missed opportunity - a moot point though.

My perspective is that a degree, or any other qualification is only a measure of an individuals ability work hard and to absorb information and regurgitate it or (occasionally) apply it when required. We have had a number of very well (academically) qualified officers really screw up the trade in recent years by trying to convert theory to reality.

Theory said that we could close all forward stores and provide a better service by bolstering the delivery service. So we closed all the forward stores and were refused the resources we needed to bolster the delivery service or adequately manage the Kanbans- theory 0, reality 1.

Theory said that we didn't need to hold anything on the shelf because we could contract for Just In Time delivery. Unfortunately the contractors were no more willing to have shelves full of dead money than the MoD were - theory 0, reality 2.

Theory said that if we measured the reverse supply chain performance (U34 rate) we could improve it and save £££. Unfortunately this was the same theorist that told us to withdraw the people from the forward stores that would be hastening the returns; the result was some very nice graphs and a huge increase in U34s - theory 0, reality 3.

I am ranting now and could go on for a long time, so I will stop and go have a lie down. Suffice to say I would want a (mature) graduate working for me not because of the specialist learning he could bring but because of the work ethic, drive and determination he/she is likely to have. I remain convinced that the RAF is just too big and to hierarchical to ever get the full benefit - if there is any.

P.S. I was reading this weekend about the head of HMRC and his qualifications for the post. He has only one degree - in f***ing Latin!