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Career Management

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vinnyvx

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When reading posts in the Shiney forum I keep coming across references to CM, I assume this means Career Managers? Come off it, when did drafters ever manage anyone's career, other than their own. PMA/PMC/PMA/Manning have always had a bums on seats approach to supposed career management. I know Sgt TG17s who have full CIPD qualifications and they've been posted into SNCO GD Flt jobs, and no they weren't volunteers. I'm leaving the RAF(TG17) essentially because I'm bored with the work and it doesn't challenge me. I'd love to be a drafter at High Wycombe, however I can't because I don't have any recent PSF experience. I've tried getting into PSF and I can't do that because I don't have any recent PSF experience. I wouldn't mind but I'm probably better professionally (HR) qualified than most TG17 personnel, does that matter? No.

Drafters please don't call yourselves career managers, you aren't. Civilianise PMA it works for the Army in Glasgow and Air Sec 2(civil servant) manages to draft senior officers without any difficulty. It'll soon sort out the trade structure and remove the nepotism.
 
Thought for a fair while about replying, but here goes:

CIPD qualifications never played a part in my discussions with any TG17 Sgt about his/her AOC. The truth is that it will never be possible to get everyone where they want to go.

Interested to note you would love to be a drafter at H Wycombe, you could respond to the current trawl asking for vols. Did Innsworth as a drafter never appeal, especially as it's been common knowledge that the organisation was moving to H Wycombe?

Civilianising PMA will definitely happen at some point, because those at the top of the RAF do not need (in their opinion) TG17 or Admin(Sec). However, the service provided by ACOS Manning will certainly reduce, not least because civilians will not routinely work very long hours and weekends just to keep their head above water.

Clearly there are always a number of differing opinions about the effectiveness of the PMC/PMA/ACOS Manning. Generally speaking however, the majority of complaints come from those who have never drafted, and who may not have the knowledge of what are frankly extremely complex regulations.

This reply may stir up a hornets nest of responses, but hey that's life.
 
Fair comment Tommo9999. I am TG17 and have never felt the need to complain about any of my postings as I have always got an area of choice except for on promotion, but as I accepted the promotion, I accepted the posting. I don't envy any of the Career Managers as it must be a thankless task. One that isn't made any easier by other TG17 persons constantly sniping about them.
 
One very big chip on the shoulder there Vinnyvx although I do have to agree with you on some points. Career Managers is a Gucci term for the drafters who move personnel from one unit to another to fill establishment vacancies. I doubt very much whether many of them worry how anyones career is managed, it's just moving someone from one location to another because that's where they've asked to go. That said how many of us are willing to go to a location that we don't fancy purely because there is a good job that may enhance our career prospects?

They've come up with the term Career Manager as it will sound good on a CV and I don't have any problem with that - best of luck to them, sounds better than SNCO HR! Truth is though, there's only one person I trust to manage my career and that's myself. With a little help and dialogue with the CM this is achieveable so long as you're willing to be patient and wait for the right opportunity to arise. No good sitting back and saying I can't get this and I can't get the other, yes you bl@@dy can if you want it enough, just takes some effort.

The Civilianisation of CM posts has arisen here before and I for one am against it. I believe that you need a sevice background to draft especially in list 1 trades. Maybe there is an arguement for support trades to be drafted by civvies but I doubt very much if many civvies would be wiling to put in all the time & effort required for the small remuneration that they would receive.

Whatever we think of CM's they do work bl@@dy hard to try and achieve our personnel asperations and, whilst not always successful, they do have the right mindset for the job which a civilian would not. Further, if they civilianised all the CM posts, who do you think would fill them? Yep, the same guys that do the job now with an 8 to 5 attitude which would achieve absolutely nothing for the average JNCO trying to get a posting to RAF Lincolnshire.

Personnally, I'd like to see CM's do at least 2 full tours before going back to ACOS Manning; this would open up CM opportunities for more personnel as well as giving the CM's a more diverse view of the service. I won't hold my breath though.
 
Humble Scribe said:
Personnally, I'd like to see CM's do at least 2 full tours before going back to ACOS Manning; this would open up CM opportunities for more personnel as well as giving the CM's a more diverse view of the service. I won't hold my breath though.
Click to expand...

A fair enough point HS, but what is a full tour? How long should it be? And is it reasonable to deny a volunteer the chance to draft, when there are usually very few who ask to draft? I'm all for fresh faces to be brought in as CM's, but lots of our TG just simply do not want to do the job, either at Innsworth or H Wycombe. Maybe if PMA/ACOS Manning was to relocate to Lincolnshire there might be a few more interested ...........???
 
tommo9999 said:
A fair enough point HS, but what is a full tour? How long should it be? And is it reasonable to deny a volunteer the chance to draft, when there are usually very few who ask to draft? I'm all for fresh faces to be brought in as CM's, but lots of our TG just simply do not want to do the job, either at Innsworth or H Wycombe. Maybe if PMA/ACOS Manning was to relocate to Lincolnshire there might be a few more interested ...........???
Click to expand...

Personally, I wouldn't say no to a tour of drafting and have indicated it on my PoP. Only problem is that I do not have entry to the old folks home yet! :PDT_Xtremez_31: But if they were to give me the carrot of my third banana, then I wouldn't say no to being a CM. :PDT_Xtremez_28:
 
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Boarderlyne said:
Personally, I wouldn't say no to a tour of drafting and have indicated it on my PoP. Only problem is that I do not have entry to the old folks home yet! :PDT_Xtremez_31: But if they were to give me the carrot of my third banana, then I wouldn't say no to being a CM. :PDT_Xtremez_28:
Click to expand...

There's another option. Couldn't JNCO's draft SAC's/SAC(T)'s? It would give them some experience, which they could bring back later in their careers, bring some new blood into drafting and give the SNCO CM's some face to face supervisory responsibilities as well as partially re-addressing the trade pyramid . Winner!
 
Humble Scribe said:
There's another option. Couldn't JNCO's draft SAC's/SAC(T)'s? It would give them some experience, which they could bring back later in their careers, bring some new blood into drafting and give the SNCO CM's some face to face supervisory responsibilities as well as partially re-addressing the trade pyramid . Winner!
Click to expand...

Sounds like a plan. Would you really trust me to do that???
 
Boarderlyne said:
Personally, I wouldn't say no to a tour of drafting and have indicated it on my PoP. Only problem is that I do not have entry to the old folks home yet! :PDT_Xtremez_31: But if they were to give me the carrot of my third banana, then I wouldn't say no to being a CM. :PDT_Xtremez_28:
Click to expand...

You and me both. HW is not an AOC, but I would accept a CM job wherever it happened to be located.
 
vinnyvx said:
When reading posts in the Shiney forum I keep coming across references to CM, I assume this means Career Managers? Come off it, when did drafters ever manage anyone's career, other than their own. PMA/PMC/PMA/Manning have always had a bums on seats approach to supposed career management. I know Sgt TG17s who have full CIPD qualifications and they've been posted into SNCO GD Flt jobs, and no they weren't volunteers. I'm leaving the RAF(TG17) essentially because I'm bored with the work and it doesn't challenge me. I'd love to be a drafter at High Wycombe, however I can't because I don't have any recent PSF experience. I've tried getting into PSF and I can't do that because I don't have any recent PSF experience. I wouldn't mind but I'm probably better professionally (HR) qualified than most TG17 personnel, does that matter? No.

Drafters please don't call yourselves career managers, you aren't. Civilianise PMA it works for the Army in Glasgow and Air Sec 2(civil servant) manages to draft senior officers without any difficulty. It'll soon sort out the trade structure and remove the nepotism.
Click to expand...

I know of a recent move to a CM post where the individual has not touched PSF for almost 10 years. Unless you have been placed in the ar5e end of nowhere for most of your career then you should have a fairly good working knowledge of PSF anyway, which should be reflected in your appraisal. I haven't worked in PSF since umm well since....... However, I keep up to date on with what is going on outside of my leave input and expense approving area incase one of the guys or girls comes into my office to ask for advice on something else.

My philosophy has always been if you don't ask you don't get. I have been asking for the last couple of years in anticipation of growing up. If there is a slot when I join the old folks home then hopefully I will be in with a shout.
 
tommo9999 said:
Clearly there are always a number of differing opinions about the effectiveness of the PMC/PMA/ACOS Manning. Generally speaking however, the majority of complaints come from those who have never drafted, and who may not have the knowledge of what are frankly extremely complex regulations.

Well said, any TG17 SNCO should not complain unless they are willing to do the job themselves and see the reality. All ground trades are generally location driven, there are few personnel who actually volunteer to be Chf Clk regardless of location. The same for Career Management a catchall title to include officers drafting as well - they are career managed! However ground trades do not have that luxury regardless of what civilian qualifications we may gain.
Click to expand...
 
I spent a massive 18 months in PSF in my 16 years plus and of those 18, I was on leave for over 2 months and OOA for 6! I loved doing pay queries as it gave a real sense of satisfaction to sort one out, but hated check sheets with an undiluted passion.

But outside of that, I have been lucky to work in digital posts and that has meant that I think IMNSHO that I have a better idea of what some of the Trade Groups go through rather than people who are stuck in Handbrake House or Ivory Towers for their whole career.

Cpl's as CMs? Why not? We moan about rank being diluted so why not make the JNCOs a bit more powerful. To the pongos and Rocks (no disrespect to either group), when a Cpl says Jump to a junior rank, the answer is 99% "How high and in metric or imperial?" and in some respects we need to bring that sort of 'line in the sand' distinction back between SACs and Cpls. Too often, the Cpl is supposed to be 'all mates together' so when he/she has to be a *******, they really get stick for it when all they are doing is what they are paid to do.

I know that most of the post has wandered distressingly off-topic, but when you think about it, it's not a bad idea. Most JNCO's work their bollocks off to get their third, so why not put them in a job where they are expected to show the maturity and awareness to gain their third?
 
The point about JNCO's as CMs is well made, and worthy of further discussion. I'm sure there are those older and bolder than myself who can remember Cpls working in the Trade Sqns in the dim and distant past. It has been done before, it could work again.
 
The suggection that JNCOs become CMs for SACs is one of the best suggestions I have heard in a long time. I can think of no reason why this would not work; whilst it wouldn't make a whole lot of difference to the rank pyramid, it would allow the post incumbent to prove themselves and give them a chance of having real responsibility - as well as giving SNCO CMs some experience at being a line manager and reporting officer, something that many of them are lacking. I also agree with the sentiment that CMs should complete a tour of at least 3 years in the outside world before being allowed back in - there are too many drafters now who have been stuck at Innsworth for far too long and need to come back down to earth and see the mess that the rest of us are having to deal with on a daily basis. Going off topic a little, I also feel that the term Career Manager is very misleading when it comes to those dealing with the ground trades - I have seen little evidence to suggest that anybodies career is "managed" - it's more an exercise of filling posts with whoever is available at the time and if the post happens to fulfil a personal aspiration then hey, that's a bonus.
 
One of the problems with Career Management is that we (The customer) are driven almost exclusively by one thing - location. Given the diverse positioning of our units (Valley, ISL/K, Marham, MOD, St Mawgan etc) it is just not possible to place everyone where they want to be. However, if pers were willing to take on the best job in career management terms, regardless of location, there would be scope to properly CM everyone. There would have to be things like fixed tour lengths etc etc which may not be to everyone's liking.
 
My 'Career Manager' is never available when I press the early termination button. Is this a problem with JPA functionality or availability of CMs?
 
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