Civvy Street Airline Jobs

[PHIXER GIRL]

Has anyone made the successfull transition from being a Techie in the RAF to a ciivvie in the airline industry.

If so, was it easy and what airlines have you worked with?

PG. XX.

 

[Rigga]

Hi PG,

Many have made the swap over to the other side, and enjoyed it.

Unfortunately, it is not fairly easy anymore, due to EASA and some new-ish regulations called Part-66, but if you put the time and effort into your studies and exams, it can be rewarding.

I have met two guys from my fitters course, one an un-licenced mechanic and the other FAA(A&P) licenced, and many others from other places I have been stationed at. All are quite happy with their work rate/pace of life, and their Lot!

One Dept I worked in was all ex-RAF - including the Administrator! - and it was the best run Dept I'd ever worked in.

However, many ex-RAF have taken the change of lifestyle as a way of changing tack and moving into some new fields with their "transferable" experiences and talents.

Horses for Courses, I suppose.

Since leaving the Mob, I have worked for one airline that turned 'us' into a Maintenance & Repair Organisation, and I am now working for another airline - but I won't say names on here. (errrm - and all in only 7 years!)

Although I say it myself, I am now in a senior engineering position within the (quite large) company, and paid managers rates, but I have no-one to boss about, or to bother me!
I just keep my head down, do what I need to do , and go home at the end of work! I am often on call "Just in case" and in 2 years have had one call for a minor question. No problem!

I am sure many others will reply to your question and will probably put other views
too.

You don't have to be mad to work in aviation, but you have to put up with a lot of them!

Rigga

 

[Disillusioned]

Although I've not made the leap myself yet I do have a good friend who left the mob, minced for a bit and is now plying his trade for a large helicopter operator beginning with B. He's unlicensed and is on about the same pay as Cpl techie. There are also a lot of benefits that I won't go into right now but one of them is that his employer is paying for him to do his licenses. Having said that rumours are that EASA are thinking of doing away with licenses and it'll be controlled by the individual companies as to who has the extra responsibilities currently taken on by the licensed engineers. Having said that it is earlier days for that rumour so I'd take it with a pinch of salt for now.

 

[PHIXER GIRL]

I forgot to mention, I'm a B2 unrestricted and work for a large airline. I have various Boeing and Bus types on my licence.

When I first left the RAF, I went contracting for a few years before my kid was born. The money was great but the lifestyle did not really suit me. Too much booze, boogie and jiggly. Reputations and all that.

Been working for the same airline since. Promotion is a non starter though, even in todays world of equality. I even get paid less than some blokes for the same job. Spotty herberts.

I was just interested who else may have managed to transition just like me. I only know one bloke personally who was in the RAF but I know there are many others.

You can ALWAYS spot the ex RAF aircrew whenever you go in the cockpit. They usually moan about everything. The best way to handle them is start talking about drink, body fluids, sex, parties, sex and more drink. This changes the subject from airplanes. They soon forget the list of snags while you quietly erase the EICAS. A quiet night after all. Tee hee.

PG.XX.

Ps. What is the A nerd thing that has appeared ?

 

[sumps]

I've seen Rigga's replies on pprune and airmech - and he sells the good line however, the other seems to have a "tell-it-like-it-is" attitude.

As an insider with only a few years to do, I resent having to pay £3500(+) for a licence, for something that I have been doing for the last 20 odd years.
If you think about it, you could spend a fair amount of time studying for a degree and getting the majority of it paid for buy the RAF then leaving to join an industry (not necessarily aviation) and step in into a £27K(+) job straight away.

I understand that to get a licence you have to (re)study and (re)take the exams you have already taken with the RAF, then gain 1 years employment, before the licence becomes active (within 5 years of embarking on the licence), then be selected by your company to be put on a type rating course. I understand that the starting pay for some one having passed the exams but not the one years exp' is about £22 - 25 and with licence and type rating £25 - 27(+), which in practice is about 2 - 3 years after leaving the mob.

I vote the former.

If you go to, THIS REPORT, I cant help wondering why the civilian organisations don't make the prospect of working in civiy street more attractive to the armed forces personnel i.e. recognising the work and other qualifications through better pay on joining and then encouraging them into the licensed route.

To be honest I work on AT aircraft, I see less and less people wanting to work on aircraft outside the RAF as other and greater opportunities present themselves outside aviation with other industries recognising the skills and the training we have received…

...Discuss...

 

[Rigga]

I've seen Rigga's replies on pprune and airmech - and he sells the good line however, the other seems to have a "tell-it-like-it-is" attitude.

Wow! I didn't know I was being so positive!

As an insider with only a few years to do, I resent having to pay £3500(+) for a licence, for something that I have been doing for the last 20 odd years.

This was always the "Old Cheif's" argument for military experience, The only similarity is the mechanics of systems - the language, methodology and practices of working civil aircraft is greatly different. I still get my terminology wrong after 7 Years. I first heard this argument when I was a Cpl at Odiham in the late 80's (and I had my first Licences then) and told a chief that if he wnted to do this outside he would have to work for it like everyone else! - I have always thought that to get a qualification for what you want to do, was always worth the effort
e.g. Cosford Trainers get Diploma's/Degree's in Teaching

If you think about it, you could spend a fair amount of time studying for a degree and getting the majority of it paid for buy the RAF then leaving to join an industry (not necessarily aviation) and step in into a £27K(+) job straight away.

Quite right! - Ex RAF personnel may even be able to join a Degree Course in Aviation Maintenance and quite easily qualify - after about four-five years.
I work as an non-Type Rated "Back Office" Engineer, and I get salary of 42Kpa Plus Pension, etc.
I do have a 737 T/R and also Helicopter and Piston light aircraft Licences that don't count towards my pay

I understand that to get a licence you have to (re)study and (re)take the exams you have already taken with the RAF, then gain 1 years employment, before the licence becomes active (within 5 years of embarking on the licence), then be selected by your company to be put on a type rating course. I understand that the starting pay for some one having passed the exams but not the one years exp' is about £22 - 25 and with licence and type rating £25 - 27(+), which in practice is about 2 - 3 years after leaving the mob.

Type Rated Engineers on Large aircraft earn at least as much as me + overtime

I vote the former.

If you go to, THIS REPORT, I cant help wondering why the civilian organisations don't make the prospect of working in civiy street more attractive to the armed forces personnel i.e. recognising the work and other qualifications through better pay on joining and then encouraging them into the licensed route.

The answer to this also lies within the Airmech Site's threads if you would care to search that too - The RAF Big-Wigs didn't/couldn't be bothered to complete the required paperwork to apply for, or put foreward, the formal acceptance of Military Staff experiences whilst serving, within the required time-frame - but the Aircrew cross-referencing got there!. The Swiss Government put forward agricultural Tractor engineer's experience - and got it!

To be honest I work on AT aircraft, I see less and less people wanting to work on aircraft outside the RAF as other and greater opportunities present themselves outside aviation with other industries recognising the skills and the training we have received…

...Discuss...

I would very much like to see more comments to this thread to clear up some other misinformation.

 

[bear_on_tour]

No probs

left hit the circuit and been on it for the past 4 years

work is generally always there and you get to a stage where you can pick and choose what you fancy

 

[TrickyTree]

....To be honest I work on AT aircraft, I see less and less people wanting to work on aircraft outside the RAF as other and greater opportunities present themselves outside aviation with other industries recognising the skills and the training we have received…

I seem to remember an article in Flight International a couple or three years ago about how aerospace was losing engineers to other industries, Formula One and other motor sports being particular examples mentioned.

One of my close friends banged out a few years ago, he worked for Monarch (I think) at Luton for a bit then switched to the rail industry. He's quite happily esconced in Sweden right now, still in rail, working for Alstom I think. It seems to be an expanding industry, I've seen a few ads in the main IET journal Engineering and Technology, both on trains and in signal engineering.

 

[sumps]

Originally posted by me - reply by RIGGA:

If you go to, THIS REPORT, I cant help wondering why the civilian organisations don't make the prospect of working in civiy street more attractive to the armed forces personnel i.e. recognising the work and other qualifications through better pay on joining and then encouraging them into the licensed route.

The answer to this also lies within the Airmech Site's threads if you would care to search that too - The RAF Big-Wigs didn't/couldn't be bothered to complete the required paperwork to apply for, or put foreward, the formal acceptance of Military Staff experiences whilst serving, within the required time-frame - but the Aircrew cross-referencing got there!. The Swiss Government put forward agricultural Tractor engineer's experience - and got it!

But my question was (in the light of the changes over the last few years) why dont the civilian organisations (taking into consideration the above report in my original post) make it more attractive for the armed forces to join considering the perceived difficulties in the future.

Of course the aircrew got thier act together they have a representitive in the CAA, we (the engineers) don't - and I think that the Big Wigs thought that we would all walk if given some parity with civiy street - well, have the pilots? I think that the response would be of a similar magnitude.

 

[PHIXER GIRL]

On top of all these problems discussed previously, you also have the UK CAA feck factor to deal with. They are notorious for being less than sympathetic. Actually pathetic. Some other member states are just handing out part 66's willy nilly. The Swedes being a big culprit. They automatically convert an ICAO type 2 without further examination etc. This means that there is a hell of a lot of engineers on the market holding a B1 and B2 licence. This undermines the UK licence as they make you have to jump through hoops. Not to mention the influx of bodies from the eastern block. These guys are prepared to work for peanuts. The future of the engineer in my view is very bleak. In 10 years or so the job will pay next to nothing and the hard work to obtain a UK licence will not be worth it.

I personally would not open my toolbox for less than 40K.

I still think the best way in is to contract. Get the basic part 66, even though it would be restricted to the hilt. Then work unlicenced and chip away at the restrictions. Types come later through company approval.

PG. XX.

 

[Rigga]

Sumps,

Civvy MRO's do make service personnel welcome - but won't place them above civvy personnel just to get them on board! Spending money on potential "fly-by-night's" is not good business. They do recognise your experience and background, but can't pay you for something more than they can hire you for.

If you want to join an aviation company, you can join as a mechanic, or as a fitter, and be placed on the same footing as the other new personnel and in the same pay scale.

Only if you are licenced or have type rating relevant to the job will you get any additional pay or benefits.

The benefit you, as ex-servicemen, have is your range of experience and the certified training that you have had, plus a strong work ethic that is built into many servicemen.

It will only take you one year of proven work experience on civil registered aircraft to qualify for your Licences and/or Type Rating. If you can start this year of experience earlier (e.g. by working weekends at a civvy airport) this will help shorten or eliminate your time. Nothing in the regulations says you can't do that, or that military personnel can't have Licences before they leave the armed services. Log all your work experiences, and get them certified before you leave anywhere.

Civil companies do not work in the same way as the military, where, in the past, just to complete a Type Course may automatically qualify you for the "Q" because 'they' needed it!
Civvies require you to pass the exams (B1 - Engine, airframe and electrics, B2 - Avionics and electrics), by an appreciable amount, and to know what your talking about straight afterwards - There is no leaning curve after your course - you are THE Licenced Engineer!

PG,
Dreams of 40K as you walk out the gate are wonderful, and I really hope you can make it! But don't get a mortgage on it yet. If you want to work on aircraft, and want to earn 40K, getting a Licence and Type Rating should be your prime aim. - It could take you 5 years, from now, if you get yer finger out! If you aim for B Licences now - you should'nt have any restrictions at all!

For your info:

Adverts can now be seen for "UK-Part66" Licences as opposed to other Member States' as operators know that UK engineers have been properly trained!

Pilots DID leave the RAF in large droves just a few years ago - You either haven't been in long, or you have a short memory - and the only reason they stay in now is because they get large rewards for staying in - or parity with their civil counterparts. Voteing with Feet even works within MOD!

In my humble opinion:
"They" will always need engineers - not just a mechanic - but someone who knows what will fix something, and can fix it as soon as possible.
EASA is about to go through some form of Licence review in December- keep your eyes peeled for further news on Licencing. "We" do expect to have some hassle over derrogation of Licence priviliges.

 

[Fablon biff chit]

Perhaps the airlines could recruit the trolley dolly birds from the serving wraf's?

 

[PHIXER GIRL]

Perhaps the airlines could recruit the trolley dolly birds from the serving wraf's?

The only trolley I'll be pushing is the one overflowing with dosh, to the bank at the end of the month.

PG. XX.

 

[sumps]

Quote PG:

You can ALWAYS spot the ex RAF aircrew whenever you go in the cockpit. They usually moan about everything. The best way to handle them is start talking about drink, body fluids, sex, parties, sex and more drink. This changes the subject from airplanes. They soon forget the list of snags while you quietly erase the EICAS. A quiet night after all. Tee hee

I think the next thing you will be pushing is your P45 to the dole office!!! - Bloody Hell lady, erasing snags from the aircraft computers, you'll be saying B****ks to the Queen next! - Can't do that on my AC the faults auto-down load to a card which is brought in by the crew - There still gits!

 

[Pikey Mikey]

I've now made the transition from RAF techie-ing to Airline work, and now I've had my first pay check, I dont know why I stayed in the Airforce so long, mind you, you have to actually work, this is very new to me!

 

[Rigga]

Well done PM - now start pushing past the limits of your former restrictions!

 

[Pikey Mikey]

Will do!DT_Xtremez_30: