Claim

[magic]

Hi All

After some help if possible.

Recently returned from representative sport and went to put in a claim for a meal we had, just over £7.00. There was no unit near by so stopped at the nearest place to the ground. We left just after lunch and arrived at 5.

I was informed by my HR that I could only claim £3.64 as that was the amount for the main meal. Is this correct? While on duty I can claim the exact amount bit is there a difference while claiming while away with sport?

 

[Sospan]

Some shiney will correct me if I am wrongbut I dont think you can claim for food when away playing sport. Perhaps the figure they quoted you was for missed meals.

 

[True Blue Jack]

Hi All

After some help if possible.

Recently returned from representative sport and went to put in a claim for a meal we had, just over £7.00. There was no unit near by so stopped at the nearest place to the ground. We left just after lunch and arrived at 5.

I was informed by my HR that I could only claim £3.64 as that was the amount for the main meal. Is this correct? While on duty I can claim the exact amount bit is there a difference while claiming while away with sport?

Usually you cannot claim subsistence allowance for sport at all. What sport was it and at what level were you representing?

 

[vim_fuego]

Isn't the rule you have to be away over 5 hours from your home unit to get the 21.90 rate? If thats the case arrive there a bit later or leave a little earlier!

 

[magic]

RAF Rugby, not too bothered about it but wanting to know for future reference.

Cheers

 

[Stingray]

Isn't the rule you have to be away over 5 hours from your home unit to get the 21.90 rate? If thats the case arrive there a bit later or leave a little earlier!

Representative sport is also known as 'duty'. If you can justify that no meals were provided, then put that in the justifcation box. Never had a problem with these claims myself so don't know why you are getting grief for it.

 

[Mug?]

JPA penny pinching

JPA penny pinching

Is it not the case now that you can't claim anything unless its 24 hrs away?

I struggle to figure the rules out. This is what I understood.

Attending a course in civvie street staying in a hotel = £21.00
Attending a course at a well known training school = £0 pay your food charge.
Guard Duty =£0 and no free duty meals
Duty away from unit (sport or proper work?) = £0 but can claim missed meal if you pay a food charge

 

[Humble Scribe]

My understanding is that you can only claim subsistance allowance for sport if you are an official/organiser etc; playing unfortunately doesn't count which I think is outrageous. Like Mug says though, you can claim missed meals if you pay a food charge which sounds like the advice you were given by your PSF.

 

[True Blue Jack]

Representative sport is also known as 'duty'. If you can justify that no meals were provided, then put that in the justifcation box. Never had a problem with these claims myself so don't know why you are getting grief for it.

You can claim MMA at the duty (PCR) rate for sports as long as it is included in the 'official' list. Subsistence is usually not permitted but I will have to check for RAF-level rugby. Tommo9999 probably knows the answer from first-hand experience.

Is it not the case now that you can't claim anything unless its 24 hrs away?

Who told you that garbage? Vim is right to say 5 hours, and he is also right to suggest that people are stretching out journeys to make sure they are away from unit for long enough.

I struggle to figure the rules out. This is what I understood.

Attending a course in civvie street staying in a hotel = Actual expenditure up to £21.90
Attending a course at a well known training school = £0 pay your food charge.
Guard Duty =£0 and no free duty meals
Duty away from unit (sport or proper work?) = £0 but can claim missed meal if you pay a food charge

A pretty good summary, except that duty away from unit - as long as you are away for more than 5 hours and there is no mess (of any Service) within reasonable distance (5 miles, I think) attracts subsistence allowance up to the normal limits. Yes, this does mean that you can spend £21.90 on lunch without technically breaking any rules but it is frowned upon. As I said, different rules for subsistence apply to sport as to college day-release and some other types of duty.

 

[squipper]

TBJ is right in that you can claim MMA at PCR Rate but CANNOT claim subsistence. I have been involved in RAF Rugby for many years and that is what I have always been informed. It is laid down somewhere, give me a few days and I will find out where it is stated.

If in any doubt contact the RAF Sports Board they should have the reference straight to hand.

 

[Mug?]

Will try my luck

Will try my luck

A pretty good summary, except that duty away from unit - as long as you are away for more than 5 hours and there is no mess (of any Service) within reasonable distance (5 miles, I think) attracts subsistence allowance up to the normal limits. Yes, this does mean that you can spend £21.90 on lunch without technically breaking any rules but it is frowned upon. As I said, different rules for subsistence apply to sport as to college day-release and some other types of duty.

I have spent a lot of days away from unit, I don't live in. But was told they have done away with the daily subs due to wonderful JPA, part of the whole no 30 days free food on det etc.
I will stick the claims in, on what authority though?

I remember a lot of time getting "stuck" in traffic on a 4 hour journey just to get the £5 (rate 5?) Certainly stopped us speeding between jobs.

 

[True Blue Jack]

I have spent a lot of days away from unit, I don't live in. But was told they have done away with the daily subs due to wonderful JPA, part of the whole no 30 days free food on det etc.
I will stick the claims in, on what authority though?

I remember a lot of time getting "stuck" in traffic on a 4 hour journey just to get the £5 (rate 5?) Certainly stopped us speeding between jobs.

The authority for the journey will be whatever or whoever ordered you away on duty. JSP 752 is where you find the rules governing what you are allowed to claim for and how much. I would quote chapter and verse, but this far into the JPA project people should be learning how to find it for themselves. DT_Xtremez_28:

 

[Humble Scribe]

You can claim MMA at the duty (PCR) rate for sports as long as it is included in the 'official' list. Subsistence is usually not permitted but I will have to check for RAF-level rugby. Tommo9999 probably knows the answer from first-hand experience.

It's if it's on the Sports Board Approved list which Rugby undoubtedly will be. Regs for claiming PCR for sport are in JSP752 Chap 4 Sect 8.

 

[True Blue Jack]

It's if it's on the Sports Board Approved list which Rugby undoubtedly will be. Regs for claiming PCR for sport are in JSP752 Chap 4 Sect 8.

It's one of those 'quaint' little anachronisms. Rugby Union is on the list as are Archery and Equestrianism. I've a feeling that Rugby League is not on the list or has only been added in the last few years. It doesn't take the brains of an archbishop to work out how the original list was decided upon. :raf:

 

[Realist78]

The authority for the journey will be whatever or whoever ordered you away on duty. JSP 752 is where you find the rules governing what you are allowed to claim for and how much. I would quote chapter and verse, but this far into the JPA project people should be learning how to find it for themselves. DT_Xtremez_28:

I couldn't agree more TBJ but info and a learning package are lacking to say the least. Yes I do know that you are having to learn as well but when all said and done, this was a package rushed in on Bliar's insistence and everyone hasn't got the admin background or knowledge that probably makes the transition easier.:S

 

[Roobsta]

TBJ/All

I'm going to make a sweeping generalisation - we've struggled to find out allowances for ourselves for years. Many PSF staff over my 22 years service have been less than helpful and begrudging (end of sweeping statement)

Some with comments like 'keep this to yourself' at which point the whole sqn was informed about the allowance and I was hauled back in to be told off. My mates retort was 'are we entitled?' answer 'yes' my parting shot was 'so what's the problem?' He only knew about it as he was going out with a scribbly at the time.

I think that's the bottom line - too many allowances have not been given proper publicity, they've been well hidden inside HUGE APs and people do not have the time to do the reading.

(now to dig myself out of this hole) The good HR staff I have met recently have even told us prior to going on det what we are allowed to claim for, what forms or JPA action we need to take and it has been put in the Op Order. Half the time, knowing what you can and can't claim for is the big issue. Sometimes you only find out by word of mouth.

Roobsta

 

[Mug?]

ch ch ch ch changes

ch ch ch ch changes

I would know what was going on if there was less bloomin changes.
Every day there seems to be a new button or option in the drop down boxes.
A new bulletin on new regs. I haven't got the time to keep up. I made the mistake of saving a copy of the JSP to save download times etc But then I go to do something and ts al different.

I am sure I read aboout the change to the rates system but don't know if it was off the JPA page or local orders or even off here? I know I was outraged as I had just come into a job where I would have been able to claim.

 

[tommo9999]

I was Team Manager for the RAF Senior XV for quite a few years and the only people who could claim subsistence were the management, it was covered in QR2484. JSP752 has reinforced that, and the above comments are correct. Players NO, Management generally YES.

 

[busby1971]

Duty but not Duty

Duty but not Duty

You are on Duty to cover you for insurance reasons, ie you injure yourself and the RAF pay for your time whilst you're a vegetable in Hospital.

From what I believe if you are more than 5 miles away from your place of duty and are away for more than 5 hours then you can claim for a meal or two, at then end of the day if you put in a claim and it gets audited you've got to be able to justify it or be damned, the letter of the rule has to be backed up with common sense.

If you like playing rugby, the extra time off work and the kudos it gives you I'm sure you won't mind paying for the meal, perhaps next time you go somewhere nice on a subsidised tour you'll make up for it.

 

[KingGuin]

TBJ/All

I think that's the bottom line - too many allowances have not been given proper publicity, they've been well hidden inside HUGE APs and people do not have the time to do the reading.
(now to dig myself out of this hole) The good HR staff I have met recently have even told us prior to going on det what we are allowed to claim for, what forms or JPA action we need to take and it has been put in the Op Order. Half the time, knowing what you can and can't claim for is the big issue. Sometimes you only find out by word of mouth.

Roobsta

Digging myself into a hole - QR 989(4). Ignorance is no excuse. In a previous job somewhere in Wiltshire I was twice redressed by members of the green suited master race. Apparently, as an administrator (according to the redress) it is s was/is my job to tell them whenever a change was made to an admin AP/JSP or QRs. Their rationale being they were too busy undertaking "primary" tasks and thus unable to aquaint themselves with any regulations never mind changes. Score: Me 2, Aircrew 0.

That said, I would argue that the regualtions, per se, are fairly easy to find (a quick search on Defence Intranet for example) but in some cases hideously difficult to interpret.