Welcome to E-Goat :: The Totally Unofficial Royal Air Force Rumour Network
Join our free community to unlock a range of benefits like:
  • Post and participate in discussions.
  • Send and receive private messages with other members.
  • Respond to polls and surveys.
  • Upload and share content.
  • Gain access to exclusive features and tools.
Join 7.5K others today

Claiming against the RAF for hearing loss.

  • Following weeks of work, the E-GOAT team are delighted to present to you a new look to the forums with plenty of new features. Take a look around and see what you think!
I wrote a letter to the Royal British Legion at the beginning of January. Within a matter of days I had a reply and a form to fill in. Duly completed and returned. I received a notification of receipt, reference number, etc. And last week I got letter from 'Medicals Direct'. This Monday I'm off to see a private audiologist.

It's all very efficient. I'll keep the Goat informed.
 
I got tested the other day for signing on to 15 + 6. Apparently my hearing is still HC1 but not far off HC2.

When asked by the SMO what could be the cause of the degradation he was not surprised to hear yet another complaint about folk doing quick ground runs right outside the hanger without shutting the hanger doors as they are too ******* lazy.

It's in my notes as such so apparently it opens the way for a claim later on.
 
does anyone know if you can claim for deafness before leaving the RAF, as i have H4/H2 hearing,which got picked up on my LOS30 medical.
 
There has been mention on this thread regarding time frames and when you can or cannot claim. The AFPS does allow you 5 years to claim (3 Years if you were to go civil through a solicitor and the civil court) however, if you have passed this 5 year limitation point there is ‘Section 33 of the Limitation Act 1980, Sect 11 and 14’ and it uses the ‘Date of Knowledge’. This is the time that you were aware that you were significantly injured/damaged, I;e when you first realised/diagnosed that your hearing was causing you pain/discomfort or problems otherwise. This is a grey area and can be used to your advantage as it is difficult to ascertain when your hearing began to deteriorate therefore giving you a little leeway for your claim. Sometimes you have to have a number of visits to the hearing specialist, operations etc… these can take a number of months even years to get to the bottom of the issue. Check out the link, although the MoD came back at the soldier in the case it gives you some idea of how this part of the law works. I hope this helps some of you, I for one will certainly be using it on my departure…

McCoubrey v Ministry of Defence {[2007] EWCA Civ 17}

Link: http://www.stubblegal.co.uk/scripts/7Civ05.htm (Section 3)

Anyway, just a thought…
 
Spooky coming across this thread I have noticed that my missus keeps turning the TV down because I have it too loud apparently and I have real problems hearing people on the phone, I didn't think there was anything wrong with my hearing but on reading my copy of my medical documents my terminal medical has my high frequency hearing thresholds at 50db for my left and 60db for my right ear, interestingly these are highlighted in the notes but nobody ever thought it necessary to bring it to my attention! Going back I find that in 1996 these were at 10 and 15 db's respectively and have been steadily decreasing.

Now after working on harriers for 25 years I'm not too surprised that I'm a bit deaf considering the crap they've called ear protection over the years but why didn't some muppet from the medical profession ever bother to tell me?

Anyway, are those levels anywhere near the threshold for making a claim via RBL?
 
Now after working on harriers for 25 years I'm not too surprised that I'm a bit deaf considering the crap they've called ear protection over the years but why didn't some muppet from the medical profession ever bother to tell me?

I was only 1st line harriers for 4 years and I am sat typing this with a couple of earing aids in. I also have a daily reminder of the old GR3's as I can hear their engines now in the form of tinitus.

My ears are well and truly buggered ............... I can not have a normal conversation without earing aids.
 
I was only 1st line harriers for 4 years and I am sat typing this with a couple of earing aids in. I also have a daily reminder of the old GR3's as I can hear their engines now in the form of tinitus.

My ears are well and truly buggered ............... I can not have a normal conversation without earing aids.

That's something to look forward to then :PDT_Xtremez_21:

Is tinitus that high pitch whistling that I've only noticed since I started working in a nice quiet office?
 
That's something to look forward to then :PDT_Xtremez_21:

Is tinitus that high pitch whistling that I've only noticed since I started working in a nice quiet office?

Yes, that's it. Day and night. Non-stop. Concentrate on something else and it 'goes away', except it doesn't.
 
Yes, that's it. Day and night. Non-stop. Concentrate on something else and it 'goes away', except it doesn't.

Ggggreat!

Not only do I find out I'm deaf but I've also got an "itus" all in the same day!

Still, I can now legitimately ignore anything I don't want to hear - every cloud and all that. I think I might pop a note to RBL; at 50db and 60db according to my med docs t'internet tells me I'm moderate to severely deaf! (I think my other half knew that before I did)
 
Off Topic
Well chiefy I am already there ................. if you have been on Harriers for 25 years we might just know each other. I was on 1(F) 1980 - 84.

We've possibly met but only if you were with 1(F) on detachment to Deci in June '84 - I was on 899 NAS and much beer/ Deci red was consumed so unless you were the big guy who gave me a black eye I doubt I'd remember you (yep an ex-matelot)
 
We've possibly met but only if you were with 1(F) on detachment to Deci in June '84 - I was on 899 NAS and much beer/ Deci red was consumed so unless you were the big guy who gave me a black eye I doubt I'd remember you (yep an ex-matelot)

I am sure I was in Deci in 83 the year of the sun after a bloody cold 82 (Winter - Norway - Falklands winter - back in time for winter.)

Deci 84 ........ don't recall it and the only NAS lads i knew were the ones off the Hermes ..... 809?

Never mind chiefy ................ happy days all the same ............... even if its pay back time now. :PDT_Xtremez_30:
 
Well I have just received word that my claims have ben ruled invalid as believe it or not my hearing (as charted by that beeping machine) has improved since I left the mob! The general gist of the letter is that this brings me back into the scope of age related deafness and not permanent damage caused bymy service.

I have been told I can appeal the decision but to be honest I cannot be asred.

So there we have it. 29 years sumpying in close proximity to jet and turboprop engines doesn't affect your hearing that much honest!

Jimps
 
...
I have been told I can appeal the decision but to be honest I cannot be asred.

...

I went down the same avenue late last year; just after I submitted my paperwork to RBL I found out that one of the blokes I work with had tried it too but had had his claim rejected much like yourself - he is, almost quite literally, as deaf as a post so I just didn't bother following it up seeing as I can hear him quite well but I have to shout at him! :PDT_Xtremez_26:
 
The letter from the Service Personnel & Veterans Agency arrived yesterday.

'We are sorry to inform you ... not entitled ...'

However, they then state:

'We have accepted the following diagnosed condition as being caused by your service.

BILATERAL NOISE INDUCED SENSORINEURAL HEARING LOSS

But we cannot pay you for this condition ...', etc, etc.

I think I'll pass on the letter to the RBL and see what they say, i.e. is it worth appealing.
 
Well I have just received word that my claims have ben ruled invalid as believe it or not my hearing (as charted by that beeping machine) has improved since I left the mob! The general gist of the letter is that this brings me back into the scope of age related deafness and not permanent damage caused bymy service.

I have been told I can appeal the decision but to be honest I cannot be asred.

So there we have it. 29 years sumpying in close proximity to jet and turboprop engines doesn't affect your hearing that much honest!

Jimps

funny enough the same thing happened to me when i left the mob 3 years ago. my hearing suddenly improved to the point where it was put down to being age related. spooky isn't it?
 
The letter from the Service Personnel & Veterans Agency arrived yesterday.

'We are sorry to inform you ... not entitled ...'

However, they then state:

'We have accepted the following diagnosed condition as being caused by your service.

BILATERAL NOISE INDUCED SENSORINEURAL HEARING LOSS

But we cannot pay you for this condition ...', etc, etc.

I think I'll pass on the letter to the RBL and see what they say, i.e. is it worth appealing.

"Is it worth appealing?" answer is yes but not to the Veterans Agency, let RBL know what they have said and ask for their advice/ help!

The veterans agency won't pay you a war pension or compensate you under the compensation package because they either don't consider you to be at least 20% disabled, which you probably aren't if you think about it - although the process is a pathetic effort to objectively measure something which is subjective - just what is 100% disabled? or your hearing loss; which because it is noise induced will be in the high frequency range, doesn't fall within their definition of "high frequency" Rules is rules and they have already made this decision based on your application and their criteria, it doesn't mean they aren't liable though!

They have accepted that your deafness is noise induced and due to your time in service which is a good step forward. Their defence is that they did everything they practically could to protect you from the inherent risk of working around aircraft............ so you need to ask yourself this question.... did they?

I don't believe they did, personally in my career on Harriers I can remember wearing the old low attenuation yellow ear defenders (which we had to drill a whole in and attach a nut and bolt to prevent them falling apart and becoming a FOD hazard, drilling holes in ear defenders can't be a good thing) these were then officially deemed as inadequate and they were replaced with a new yellow ear defender (medium attenuation) which in turn was deemed inadequate and we were told to also use the foam EAR protection in addition. Since then I can remember 2 new types of green defender one with (Peltor's high attenuation duffs, but still not their highest level of protection) and one without a yellow band (peltor medium attenuation) You may wish to go to Peltor's website and review the protection offered by their low, medium amd high attenuation hearing protection and then compare these to the noise levels you were exposed to.

Now they have obviously replaced ear defenders as and when they realised they were inadequate but these have always been issued across the board and none have been procured specifically for the Harrier and its particular noise footprint. Pilots have been trialled with noise cancelling hearing protection on Harriers because the problem was known to the MoD. BAe have of course always had a superior type of hearing protection to that issued in service and interestingly the yanks seem to have been through this whole issue and have a superior form of hearing protection so.............. if the yanks and the aircraft builders had different hearing protection for use on the Harrier why didn't we? Did the MoD do their best to protect my hearing, no, they could have done better.

Speak to RBL they will run your case for free if you choose to pursue it, gather as much information as you can, preferably documented but speak to your mates and see if they can remember dates etc then take them on and don't accept their first out of court offer (which will be offered if your case is fairly strong, they don't really want a precedent from which others can easily build a case on this matter because it will open the floodgates.)

If you don't want to pursue the case at least speak to RBL about the importance of the declaration, noise induced hearing loss doesn't stop when you stop working in a noisy environment the damage done to the fine hairs in you ear cannot be undone and leads to a greater subscebtibility to progressive deafness, there is a good chance it will get worse and MoD will then attempt to use their favourite defence of time and the supposed 5 year rule; it is not however a robust defence in the case of progressive illness's if their origin was caused in service but RBL will guide you on this.

I'm not a lawyer by the way, but I will also be pursuing MoD for damaging my hearing by way of inadequate hearing protection if they turn down my claim and have spoken to RBL and my Union about this. RBL are very useful and have a lot of info already, my Union really wrapped the legal argument up, the guy said "they had a responsibility to reduce the risk of noise induced hearing loss to the lowest level possible, not just supply you with a pair of off the shelf ear protectors that seem to have repeatedly proved inadequate, coupled with the fact that you have failed your last 4 hearing tests they may have failed in their duty of care" (I have all of my hearing test records now and nobody ever told me I had failed a single test) He advised me to use RBL to the limit of their assistance, if I'm still not happy the Union will be willing to pursue it further if necessary (ie they will pay for a specialist lawyer) Don't expect to get rich though, payouts are typically in the region of £5 - £12k and tinitus is always considered sceptically.

Edited because I forgot to put in this snippet from Hansard in 2006:
Mike Penning: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence how many servicemen and women have received an award for noise-induced hearing loss since the introduction of the Armed Forces Compensation Scheme. [89842]

Derek Twigg: There have been no awards made for noise-induced hearing loss under the Armed Forces Compensation Scheme since it came into force.

The Armed Forces Compensation Scheme applies to injuries or illnesses caused on or after 6 April 2005. Hearing loss caused by chronic exposure to noise in service is increasingly an historical phenomenon: since the mid-1960s, precautions and equipment have been introduced to protect the hearing of Service personnel from noise relating to service, including that arising in combat.
 
Last edited:
Thanks for that chiefy mate; much appreciated. I knew all along that I would pass any hearing 'beep test' and would therefore be well inside the 20% mark. But as I stated in my original claim, that's not the problem. It's the persistent, day in, day out, whistling, i.e. tinnitus. Anyway, I'll be in touch with the RBL. Watch this space ...
 
I too am as deaf as a post. I am still serving and have issued an electronic plastic horn for my left lughole!! On top of this tinnintus is just about driving me f*****g insane!! tinnitus has not been too fussy though, it decided to infect both ears so at least it's balanced...thank god for Ipods :-)

Like many others I have dreadfull difficulty in the pub...well basically i try and laugh in the right places because I aint got the foggiest clue what people are saying.....what!...say again...oh that was the punchline...F**k I missed it!!

Thanks for all the info on this thread. If the tinnitus doesn't drive me mad between now and handing my ID in, I will persue the RBL.
 
Back
Top