Controllers on the cheap?

[Part Time PFOM]

Seeing as nobody has come up with any new threads in the last month I may as well have a go.

I am OOA in the Balkans running an Helicopter Landing Site...oh well, there goes my anonymityDT_Xtremez_42:

My point is why are FOM's running HLS as opposed to Controllers, who get payed a bloody shed load more money than me.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that we FOMs can not do the job, or that it's beneth us to do it. I am just interested and wondered if anyone out ther knew why we are doing it and also why it is a six month det??????

 

[Chaka]

It was a Controllers job up till a couple of years back.

I think the reason why FOMs have been dicked is because the role is now seen more as a FISO duty where you don't actually 'control' aircraft rather 'advise pilots of each other and let them crack on.

PT PFom - If you are actually controlling aircraft and I mean you find yourself saying the words 'cleared to' rather than 'approved' to pilots then I suggest you get on the phone to your Boss in the UK and get him to kick a Sqn Ldrs arse at HQ. We already have lost 28 people on a UN aircraft in the Balkans with an 'un-qualified' person controlling and I would hate to hear it happen again.

Aside, you might be interested to know that I saw a civvie FISO job last week and the pay was 28k. So your 6 months experience could go well on a CV!

 

[FOMz]

Even if it is a FISO duty, surely a controller should be person of choice.......You said yourself that we've already lost 28 people on a UN aircraft in the Balkans with an 'un-qualified' person controlling, so why take that risk? There can't be that many OOA dets controllers are on surely..

 

[Chaka]

Even if it is a FISO duty, surely a controller should be person of choice.......You said yourself that we've already lost 28 people on a UN aircraft in the Balkans with an 'un-qualified' person controlling, so why take that risk? There can't be that many OOA dets controllers are on surely..

FOMz- Agreed mate.

If PT PFOM considers that he has to write a post on a website then he either has grave concerns for Flight Safety or he could just be feeling down at being on Det. I don't know which one but if the Flight Safety issue is there then it needs sorting quick!!

I have heard controllers say the opposite about this Det that 'it's an Ops job' so I guess the Trade Bignobs need to go out there and have a looksee.

As I said, what we don't want is a Flight Safety problem (not PT PFOMS making obviously) because some lightweight ATC or Ops Wg Cdr could not be bothered to take a bimble out there to see the situation.

Like you said FOMz, it probably is a controllers job, it just takes someone to break the chain before the accident happens.DT_Xtremez_08:

 

[FOMz]

Couldn't agree with you more mate. Haven't seen Hmmmmm on here for a while, If he is who I think he is; this looks like it could be one for him.

If I was in PTPFOM position and had real concerns, I for one would be making noises at A3Ops.

As for being untrained......If they are sending FOMs out to do a FISO's job, then surely we should be getting trained as such (and licenced!!!). Not all FOMs have experience in that field (there are those out there who've spent their WHOLE career In Ops and on Sqns and never been near a tower or ATSU)

As you said Chaka - how long until....................................

 

[morleyswanton]

Seeing as nobody has come up with any new threads in the last month I may as well have a go.

I am OOA in the Balkans running an Helicopter Landing Site...oh well, there goes my anonymityDT_Xtremez_42:

My point is why are FOM's running HLS as opposed to Controllers, who get payed a bloody shed load more money than me.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that we FOMs can not do the job, or that it's beneth us to do it. I am just interested and wondered if anyone out ther knew why we are doing it and also why it is a six month det??????

A man can't do more than he can do. Or can he? What says Don Ferdinando?

PT PFOM - Even a dog knows the difference between being stumbled over and being kicked - don't you know that??

You make a mountain of a mole-hill.

 

[You Can Call Me Al]

My point is why are FOM's running HLS as opposed to Controllers, who get payed a bloody shed load more money than me.

It was seen as a waste of a controller - so FOMs were sent instead.

Comments?

DT_Xtremez_42:

 

[The Controller]

[It was seen as a waste of a controller - so FOMs were sent instead.
/QUOTE]

...Oh God.....don't you ever learn Al??????DT_Xtremez_42:

 

[Bellowyelly]

PT PFOM, the reason you are out there for six months is so that I dont have to take over from you for a while, YOU KNOB !! Now I know who you are (I can see that temple throbbing from here!!) Totally agree, controllers should stop playing golf to enhance their careers (can I carry you bag SATCO, ooh of course I did not see you taking an extra shot sir, DT_Xtremez_34: ) Sorry I forgot how one dimensional their job is for a minute. Your mission is 1. Get controllers out to Balkans ASAP 2. Get tour length down to four months. 3. Not to punch me next time is see you !!

 

[Dhoby4u]

I did that very job some time ago. My understanding about the 6 month thingy was because it has to do with command. Our job and some others are in conjunction with which nation is in the seat at the time and they swap every 6 months. The Canadians usually followed us.

As for controlling. I NEVER gave clearance and used the words 'depart/land at your discretion, surface wind' etc

 

[Sandbag]

I too did the job about year after Dhoby4, and I agree with him that it was set up as a command tour hence the 6 months in post.

Part Time PFOM - How many of you are out there covering the job? I had a Romanian Staff Sgt and a FOA Cpl, and although the pongo pilots did not like the Romanian's English at times, they did do a pretty good job, Their English was far better than my Romanian!!

The tower (cor-e-mec!) is called Springfield 'ADVISORY' which is why you always have to include 'At your discretion' when giving take off or landing instructions. The Navy were always pretty good at following our instructions but the army were like the Yanks and always tended to do it there own way.

The Controller -- Do you think that You Can Call Me Al (******) meant to put - "that he was seen as a waste as a controller"!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Hmmmm]

Fomz, not my job guv, you've got the wrong guy. But I do admit that it seems a little bizzare. Why doesn't someone have a chat with the chaps in HR at STC ATC?

 

[J Y Kelly]

Wasn't this Det one of those where they could send a Controller who didn't have a current Local ticket, i.e from CATCS or Area Radar. No wonder they decided to make it a FOM post. The main reason must be the lack of Controllers who are able to be deployed, a hefty percentage at my place. I wonder if this is the thin end of the wedge, are there any other places further east that would be " a waste of a controller."

 

[morleyswanton]

Wasn't this Det one of those where they could send a Controller who didn't have a current Local ticket, i.e from CATCS or Area Radar. No wonder they decided to make it a FOM post. The main reason must be the lack of Controllers who are able to be deployed, a hefty percentage at my place. I wonder if this is the thin end of the wedge, are there any other places further east that would be " a waste of a controller."

PT FOM & JY Kelly - Didn't either of you even think about this fact before you penned your immature thoughts upon this site?? After all, why would PMA waste the skills of a highly trained controller (?) on such a menial Det such as this??

If I wasn't mistaken, I would have thought that both of you had done some time in the RAF. With time usually comes experience. Maybe you have chosen the PFOM route as you both were not good enough to be controllers??

Therefore - please answer the following question:

PT FOM & JY Kelly - have you both got chips upon your shoulders?DT_Xtremez_08:

 

[FOMz]

MorleySwanton, Thanks for those 'wise' words............not
Why try and cause this thread to descend into yet another Controller v FOM thread, what does it achieve? bugger all

Give it a rest eh? its boring now......................

If not - I'll put my moderator hat on and do some moderating......

 

[You Can Call Me Al]

Sandbag...

Sandbag...

You complete *rse wipe - here we go in letters large...

IRONY

DT_Xtremez_25:

Now leave me alone or I shall insult you some more!

 

[Donald Rumsfeld]

Seeing as nobody has come up with any new threads in the last month I may as well have a go.

I am OOA in the Balkans running an Helicopter Landing Site...oh well, there goes my anonymityDT_Xtremez_42:

My point is why are FOM's running HLS as opposed to Controllers, who get payed a bloody shed load more money than me.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that we FOMs can not do the job, or that it's beneth us to do it. I am just interested and wondered if anyone out ther knew why we are doing it and also why it is a six month det??????

Oi Big Fella
From all your fellow FOMs(FS) get that post disestablished asap, stops us newly promoted ones (we have had lunch many a time on a unit near the M3) getting sent out there.
Remember to keep your head covered in this hot weather !

RAF Royston Vasey

 

[Part Time PFOM]

What a way to get a discussion going....

My original post was not meant as a 'whinge' or a 'whine', it was only a question. As I said:
'Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that we FOMs can not do the job, or that it's beneth us to do it. I am just interested and wondered if anyone out ther knew why we are doing it'

Now for some specifics:

Chaka

If PT PFOM considers that he has to write a post on a website then he either has grave concerns for Flight Safety or he could just be feeling down at being on Det.

I neither have grave concerns for Flight Safety or am feeling down at being on Det.DT_Xtremez_30:

Morleyswanton

PT PFOM - Even a dog knows the difference between being stumbled over and being kicked - don't you know that??

You make a mountain of a mole-hill.

PT FOM & JY Kelly - Didn't either of you even think about this fact before you penned your immature thoughts upon this site??

To your first quote: If you knew me, you would know that it would take somebody bloody big to stumble over me never mind kick me. As for making a mountain out of a mole hill, I have enough trouble making a sand castle so a mountain.....forget it.
I have only the following to say about your second quote.........'Get a bloody life'DT_Xtremez_25:

Bellowyelly

I don't know who you are yet, but have ways and means of finding out...so be afraid, be very afraid.DT_Xtremez_30:

To all of you out there that have come up with some information, I say 'Thank You' and to those of you that have 'Had a go' at me ,I say
'BITE ME'DT_Xtremez_30:

 

[Chaka]

PT PFOM

What a way to get a discussion going....

My original post was not meant as a 'whinge' or a 'whine', it was only a question. As I said:
'Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that we FOMs can not do the job, or that it's beneth us to do it. I am just interested and wondered if anyone out ther knew why we are doing it'

Now for some specifics:

Chaka


I neither have grave concerns for Flight Safety or am feeling down at being on Det.DT_Xtremez_30:

Oh good!

I am so pleased that you are not worried about flight safety or being on Det. Therefore it cannot be a Controllers job because that's all the whinge about when they are on Det. DT_Xtremez_30:

PT PFOM, guess your in the right place matey, enjoy your holidays!

 

[Bellowyelly]

You'll never take me alive PT PFOM !!DT_Xtremez_28: