Defence spending may drop after Brexit.

"Economic changes after the vote to leave the European Union could see the defence budget reduced in real terms, a committee of MPs and peers says.

The Joint Committee on the National Security Strategy says security review planning, conducted once or twice a decade, should begin "immediately"."

So if you're in charge of theoretical SDSR16, where would your axe fall? How much more of a hammering can we take?

Oh, and you're not allowed to touch manpower levels apparently "[T]he committee says that "the manpower fielded by the UK armed forces is inadequate bearing in mind the range, complexity and potential concurrency of tasks expected of them".".

Link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36756877

 

[Obi Wan]

Or is this just more scare mongering? there seems to be a lot of that going on at the moment!

 

[E E E E E E E E AR]

Or is this just more scare mongering? there seems to be a lot of that going on at the moment!

There's a lot of "could of / would of" going on. Suppose part of their job is to look a the possibilities though.

 

[vim_fuego]

Might see some stretching out of delivery schedules to spread the payment schedule in equal amounts...defence budgets will be based on expected tax receipts which in turn were planned on an expected remain result...now we are in uncharted waters the projected levels of spend out of prudence could well be reduced.

So perhaps we'll tell Boeing to slow down on the P8 production line or hope that BAE keep to form and fall predictably behind on the carriers...

 

[Max Reheat]

They could start with procurement. The amount of companies that rip us off must be staggering.

 

[Barch]

They could start with procurement. The amount of companies that rip us off must be staggering.

I would put that as the amount of people in the MOD procurement that cannot negotiate a decent contract is staggering.

 

[Cake or Death]

Whilst I know it wouldn't save much stewards. What is the point of them in this day and age. Also combine the messing. Yes separate the dining areas if you must but I really don't see the point of three separate kitchens these days. We seem to manage on ops.

 

[muttywhitedog]

The scrapping of stewards, although a very worthwhile action, would save peanuts. Civilianise/FTRS PSFs, 2nd Line maintenance, Med Centre Admin Staff, Mess Chefs, Stn SE Fitters, GEFs, MT sections and Trade Training establishments and you might be on the way though. Lets call it "Front Line First", only this time, do it properly and actually man the front line sections at 110% to take into account sickness and sudden absences.

If the MOD are really serious about saving cash, then they need to look much harder - things like moving headquarters to areas where land is cheaper. The sale of High Wycombe estate would probably raise well over a hundred million - move it to one of the sites (Lyneham/Innsworth/?) that is currently underused. It might ruffle the feathers of a few air officers, but until the "unthinkable" is thought, then any cost-saving measures are only scratching the surface.

 

[busby1971]

MWD, by the time you've got ridden of all the support trades and replaced with them with CS or contractors and built their numbers in to the reserves and the support they need to operate you'll probably be worse off.

Biggest savings would come from procurement, buy off the shelf equipment that doesn't need overly technical support and you'll soon have a few Billion lopped of the Defence bill.

Get rid of the RAF Regt, Aircraft Carriers and MBTs and their support structures and there should be plenty of cash for the things we really do need to defend this island and support offensive coalitions in the future.

Sent from my SM-T715 using Tapatalk

 

[Kryten]

One way you could save money is to write sensible requirements for future equipment procurement, and then stick to the schedule when buying it - don't put off a Main Gate decision because you "might" not be able to afford it - contractors have work forces and if they are to be kept employed then the costs will go onto the contract, which if you delay will push the costs up.

Oh, and come up with a long term defence plan agreed by all the major parties - that way if there is a change in Government the plan will keep going and won't result in stupid activities like, for example, spending billions on MPA, ripping them to pieces in full view of the workforce then buying an American competitor 6 years later when you suddenly realise you needed them after all....

 

[ninjarabbi]

The scrapping of stewards, although a very worthwhile action, would save peanuts. Civilianise/FTRS PSFs, 2nd Line maintenance, Med Centre Admin Staff, Mess Chefs, Stn SE Fitters, GEFs, MT sections and Trade Training establishments and you might be on the way though. Lets call it "Front Line First", only this time, do it properly and actually man the front line sections at 110% to take into account sickness and sudden absences.

If the MOD are really serious about saving cash, then they need to look much harder - things like moving headquarters to areas where land is cheaper. The sale of High Wycombe estate would probably raise well over a hundred million - move it to one of the sites (Lyneham/Innsworth/?) that is currently underused. It might ruffle the feathers of a few air officers, but until the "unthinkable" is thought, then any cost-saving measures are only scratching the surface.

Without sounding too touchy old boy, many of those med centre admin personnel have seen more deployments to unpleasant dusty hot places than most and served on MERT and aeromed into the mix. certainly more than our average techy (Heli's, Tonkas and C130s notwithstanding - I know those guys have done their bit).

 

[vim_fuego]

Apparently Not!

Apparently Not!

We've completed the paperwork for 9 shiny new P8's!

Boeing and the UK government have announced a deal involving the creation of 2,000 jobs and an aircraft contract.

Prime Minister David Cameron unveiled the details on Monday at the start of the Farnborough Airshow.

It involves buying nine new Boeing P8 maritime patrol aircraft and expanding the US giant's UK research operations.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36763212

 

[muttywhitedog]

Without sounding too touchy old boy, many of those med centre admin personnel have seen more deployments to unpleasant dusty hot places than most and served on MERT and aeromed into the mix. certainly more than our average techy (Heli's, Tonkas and C130s notwithstanding - I know those guys have done their bit).

Is that with Tac Med Wing? As I stated, "Front Line First", and in the case of TMW, that sort of an organisation should be 110% manned (like the other deployable units), with all SMCs in the UK staffed by either civilians or FTRS. There is little or no point having a deployable individual booking appointments for a service spouse to see a locum GP at some out-in-the-sticks base.

As I stated, if the MOD is really serious about saving money, then they will have to take very difficult decisions and ruffle far more feathers than just yours.

 

[ninjarabbi]

Nope. Medics from med centre's cover all the Role 1 Medical Treatment Facilities in theatre, patrol with the RAF Regiment, cover aeromed duties both intra-theatre and externally and are also employed within the Field Hospitals. I agree that many aspects of their work in a medical centre could be civilianised but on flying stations you still need a medical emergency capability. There has been recent talk of outsourcing that to the Firemen but I'll beleive that when I see it. We do have a certain amount of RAF Medics with a paramedic qualification but there certainly aren't enough of them to go round.

 

[Kryten]

We've completed the paperwork for 9 shiny new P8's!




http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36763212

Good to see the UK Government supporting UK industry there.....

 

[vim_fuego]

Good to see the UK Government supporting UK industry there.....

Its off the shelf and although not as capable in the sub-hunting area as MR4 its fits the more vanilla multi-mission profile...to wait for something else from British Industry would see us nearer 2030 and still without an MPA.

That said we do seem to be crawling into bed with Mr Boeing a little too much these days...

 

[Tin basher]

The scrapping of stewards, although a very worthwhile action, would save peanuts. Civilianise/FTRS PSFs, 2nd Line maintenance, Med Centre Admin Staff, Mess Chefs, Stn SE Fitters, GEFs, MT sections and Trade Training establishments and you might be on the way though. Lets call it "Front Line First", only this time, do it properly and actually man the front line sections at 110% to take into account sickness and sudden absences.

The concept of all civilian manned TTE is an idea that has been raised more then once. Could it be all civvie run? Well yes it could. Right now civvies can and do play a vital role in training tomorrows Royal Air Force men and women but there is a strong case for having service personnel in the mix. Young service people need contact with those still serving, those with recent experience of life on the outside of a training establishment. We really don't want a workplace full of trade knowledge rich, current ops poor, pension age KOS civvies with a million lines of "When I", "in my day", "On Harriers blah blah" etc. We need a blend of experience of both trade and recent deployment taskings. Our brown suited friends tried an all civvy training regime and whilst the info was passed across the military bit of training was lacking and an amount of "Verbal re-educating" into the Army way of doing things was needed upon return to units.

 

[FOMz]

You may find that a large proportion of those jobs will be to support P8,C17, Chinook and Apache in some shape or form and not manufacturing....

Service and support is the new boom sector in the aviation industry.

 

[muttywhitedog]

The concept of all civilian manned TTE is an idea that has been raised more then once. Could it be all civvie run? Well yes it could. Right now civvies can and do play a vital role in training tomorrows Royal Air Force men and women but there is a strong case for having service personnel in the mix.

How about only employing FTRS on 4 year contracts, recruited from those who have just completed 22 years as Aircraft Technicians? It would keep your manning at 100% (no deployments), save costs (not paying pensions) and retain relevance and a level of military contact for trainees, as the role of Instructor would only be open to those who have recent front line experience.

 

[Stevienics]

How about only employing FTRS on 4 year contracts, recruited from those who have just completed 22 years as Aircraft Technicians? I

Don't tak this the wrong way, but you would rather end up with a mass of rather "linear thinking" and not exactly commercially minded individuals. A few is an absorbable amount, but other priorities need to be accommodated in a PFI.

Like cost.