Welcome to E-Goat :: The Totally Unofficial Royal Air Force Rumour Network
Join our free community to unlock a range of benefits like:
  • Post and participate in discussions.
  • Send and receive private messages with other members.
  • Respond to polls and surveys.
  • Upload and share content.
  • Gain access to exclusive features and tools.
Join 7.5K others today

Drop in recruiting standards

  • Following weeks of work, the E-GOAT team are delighted to present to you a new look to the forums with plenty of new features. Take a look around and see what you think!
The article suggests the RAF has dropped it's standards to get enough bodies through the door as it's undermanned these days.


"what you have to appreciate is that at the RAF, there are very few people flying planes now, so they don’t have to make it so rigorous if you are going to be flying drones from a room."

"The House of Commons library, shows that in 2015/16, there were 22,107 applications at the RAF, with 13,830 being rejected – a rejection rate of 62.6 per cent. But in 2019/20, there were 32,634 applications, of which 13,387 were turned away – a rejection rate of 41 per cent. The RAF is facing a personnel shortage, according to MoD figures released earlier this year. They showed that there should be 31,869 airmen and women, but there are only 29,853."


So do you think we have lowered the bar just to try and balance the books?
 
{RANT} Maybe they should have made a concerted effort to keep well trained, motivated and hard-working personnel in. Instead the message was...BROWN NOSE, DON'T ARGUE, BE A YES MAN AND WE WILL SUPPORT YOU IN DOING YOUR SECONDARY DUTY AS YOUR PRIMARY DUTY. Oh and as for the rest of you... You are merely workers to be used and exploited and blamed when it goes wrong!! {RANT OFF}

Problem is one of their own making with regards to the numbers of personnel available. The number of hard-working personnel actually doing any work is getting less and less with more-and-more people merely being there to FACILITATE you to do their job doubling up the workload and facing obstacles regularly. And those hard-working personnel at EDP/IP will be banging out as more and more is piled onto them,!!

From a TG4 point of view and being Ex-3, the standard of JNCO was hardly anything to rave about as they were being promoted too fast in the hope they would grow into the role. Needless to say I was classed as Old School as standards is just so yesterday.
 
Last edited:
An awful lot of people get rejected at the enquiry stage, and a lot of people just drop out, IIRC the number of applicants was between 10 and 20 percent of those who made an effort to have an initial interview.

Another big chunk of people don’t progress because there aren’t any vacancies in their preferred roles, although saying that a lot of Gunner applicants didn’t start out that way, very few people also started off wanting to be a Driver but this is where they ended up once they’d done the AST, never ever had an issue recruiting Drivers and it always closed early in the recruiting year.
 
Well with seeing the myriad of adverts on telly and radio beginning to wonder the qualifications for Rap Hip Hop Gangsta stands you in good stead. Had Dah Ofisah training manual also change too to adapt. Love to see budding Officer cadet leaving with skills in Rap rhythm. No doubt I will get rap knuckles for suggesting the services concentrate Heavy Metal Thrash Metal for Army Boy Bands for the Navy and Mantovani OR Polka and Pat Boone for RAF. :ROFLMAO:
 
Don't knock it, this just means another round of Retention Bonus could be issued for those in the weaker retention trades.

Tbh, in general, if you are not in these ground trades below, you are replaceable with a civilian contractor and that's how it should go ~
  • Ground Engineering (GEF)
  • Supply (Technical) / Ground Fuels / Airfield MT
  • ATC / Ops / Int
  • Aircraft Engineers
  • Survival Equipment
  • Ground Radio / Ground Radar / C4i (partially)
If we wanted a Chef, Driver, Admin, Police, Domestic Supply etc we can call the Army and they can provide.
 
Don't knock it, this just means another round of Retention Bonus could be issued for those in the weaker retention trades.

Tbh, in general, if you are not in these ground trades below, you are replaceable with a civilian contractor and that's how it should go ~
  • Ground Engineering (GEF)
  • Supply (Technical) / Ground Fuels / Airfield MT
  • ATC / Ops / Int
  • Aircraft Engineers
  • Survival Equipment
  • Ground Radio / Ground Radar / C4i (partially)
If we wanted a Chef, Driver, Admin, Police, Domestic Supply etc we can call the Army and they can provide.
Thing about it ERT is a Retention Bonus can't quite IMHO placate the personnel. It is a sticking plaster and once the turn-around of OOA (especially for Ex-TG3 radar guys) starts affecting your whole life on a regular basis especially if you have a family then the extra money will add nothing. Not to mention the extra added BS which has become more commonplace........
 
The army will provide, as you suggest, but with bottom quality recruits in a lot of cases and the moment the army has a need for those personnel elsewhere they will be gone like a flash leaving the RAF high & dry. I have seen first hand how the army work these things, they find any billet they can to keep their headcount high in 'peacetime' but the moment a 'warry' need comes up those peace billets are left empty and stuff the organisations & people who have come to rely upon them being filled.

It's the same with contractors, so long as the posts are in a nice cosy RAF station in the shires (or even Valley!!) then contractors will be happy to do the jobs; the moment you suggest that the contractors' personnel might wish to deploy on operations as well then the contract price rockets and becomes unaffordable. That, ladies & gentlemen, is why we pay Mil personnel a bit on the top for x factor and (used to) give them the opportunities for some fun times in their life; so that they are willing to go & do the unpleasant stuff in hot, dirty, uncomfortable, dangerous places when required.
 
Don't knock it, this just means another round of Retention Bonus could be issued for those in the weaker retention trades.

Tbh, in general, if you are not in these ground trades below, you are replaceable with a civilian contractor and that's how it should go ~
  • Ground Engineering (GEF)
  • Supply (Technical) / Ground Fuels / Airfield MT
  • ATC / Ops / Int
  • Aircraft Engineers
  • Survival Equipment
  • Ground Radio / Ground Radar / C4i (partially)
If we wanted a Chef, Driver, Admin, Police, Domestic Supply etc we can call the Army and they can provide.

Lol, no.
 
Don't knock it, this just means another round of Retention Bonus could be issued for those in the weaker retention trades.

Tbh, in general, if you are not in these ground trades below, you are replaceable with a civilian contractor and that's how it should go ~
  • Ground Engineering (GEF)
  • Supply (Technical) / Ground Fuels / Airfield MT
  • ATC / Ops / Int
  • Aircraft Engineers
  • Survival Equipment
  • Ground Radio / Ground Radar / C4i (partially)
If we wanted a Chef, Driver, Admin, Police, Domestic Supply etc we can call the Army and they can provide.
Aircraft Engineers are replaceable. I’d say almost half of our workforce are ex RAF engineers now earning more than when they were in the mob for doing the same job. Add on the private health care, decent pension scheme, no DWR’s, assessments, or secondary duties, then being a civvy is an attractive proposition.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Aircraft Engineers are replaceable. I’d say almost half of our workforce are ex RAF engineers now earning more than when they were in the mob for doing the same job. Add on the private health care, decent pension scheme, no DWR’s, assessments, or secondary duties, then being a civvy is an attractive proposition.

Yes, they are replaceable. But what isn't replaceable is experience / SQEP.

These days, your making TG1 Sgt around 10 years. Go back 15 years, you were making Sgt by 22+ years.

As the experience walks out the door, those below move up the rank ladder. The result is a workforce that have less experience in getting those aircraft 'green' and good to fly. It's okay planning sorties, but when the aircrew arrive in work the next day, they find 1 of the 9 aircraft serviceable, needs are not met.

Meanwhile, a force that had a person whom was a Cpl for 7-9 years, had loads of experience in the tasks, and could usually get through the most annoyance of repair, as they 'had seen it before'. Now, 3 years in rank, your moving up the ladder and the experience isn't around anymore.

Retention bonus is a way to keep SQEP, but the reality is, you need to stop the outflow of personnel, this backs up the promotion system, keeps people in rank for longer, gaining more experience. Any engineer can earn similar outside (as you have said), as even with myself, I get employment emails with words to the effect of 'were looking for people like you' for our business; that business is a MOD Contractor, so jumping ship is quite easy and attractive. People want more money, and Techie Pay was to slow the leap..

Going back to my list of disposable trades ~ HR centralised is one step closer to a offload of the trade.
 
Last edited:
Meanwhile, a force that had a person whom was a Cpl for 7-9 years, had loads of experience in the tasks, and could usually get through the most annoyance of repair, as they 'had seen it before'. Now, 3 years in rank, your moving up the ladder and the experience isn't around anymore.
These days do the people joining up share the same mind set of earlier folks or are they less patient to wait years to move up the greasy pole? The prospect of being a Cpl for 7 years rather than 3 years won't put bums on seats in the AFCO waiting room. I'm from an era when bumping into a Cpl of 10 year standing was not unusual not sure anyone would be prepared to wait that long any more. Regular promotion and regular pay rises are expected by most whether they deserve it or not.
 
I have just finished the selection process and I am waiting for a start date. I applied in 2008 and was rejected at the medical stage, however the rest of the process was about the same if not easier than it is now. The AST was pretty much exactly the same, I found it difficult then and I found it difficult in January this year when I passed it.

I recall the fitness test was easier in 2008 as the 1.5 mile run had to be completed in just over 12 minutes and that was as a 19 year old. I am 34 now and I had to run it in 11 and a half minutes so if anything the fitness test is harder now than it was then.

I can't comment on the basic training and trade training process but from my perspective having gone through selection in 2008 and 2021 I don't think for a moment that it's easier now than it was then.
 
These days do the people joining up share the same mind set of earlier folks or are they less patient to wait years to move up the greasy pole? The prospect of being a Cpl for 7 years rather than 3 years won't put bums on seats in the AFCO waiting room. I'm from an era when bumping into a Cpl of 10 year standing was not unusual not sure anyone would be prepared to wait that long any more. Regular promotion and regular pay rises are expected by most whether they deserve it or not.
These days people are banging on the door of the Chief Clerk after 3 years demanding to know why they aren’t A grades. I did a minimum of 5 years in every rank except LAC.
 
Back
Top