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Fuelly issues

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My thoughts exactly I am still surprised at the findings. I know in Hong Kong the BA jets used to refuel with what we'd call F35 and fly Non - Stop back to the UK! Mean while we blended to produce F34 despite the Heat and Humidity for both resident aircraft types (Wessex & Scout) and the odd visiting VC10 & Hercules it always seemed strange to be different to every other operator, but if you don't know what your going to be flying through on the way back I guess it makes good sense!

I'm quite sure in Ascension whilst we blended for the Tristar's and Hydrant system, i'm sure the Catherine Point Bowser used straight F35!

As an aside I would have thought the RAF practise would have been a National/International standard for such international flights. As an expert said on 5 Live tonight - you never know what weather the next flight will have to go through!

I still can't believe that a modern aircraft recieving fuel from an International Airport would have picked up enough water to freeze and cause such a problem on landing - surely the system must have some kind of detector system built in?
 
But wouldn't the fcoc heat exchange have stopped the ice from forming and if water was in the fuel other A/C at the start airport would have had it too maybe?
 
Norman the Storeman said:
There is never a good case for AL48 or diethylene glycol monomethyl ether (I loved my Pet Lab course).
It is a horrible stuff & a right royal pain in the arse, I cannot wait unitl the military see sense and get rid. Rant over!
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Oooh Norman your so matcho...... Did you have to google it for the spelling? :PDT_Xtremez_27:
 
I'm no fuelly expert but doesn't it seem strange that it was only one A/C that it affected and maybe they are trying to cover up something else.
And from what I remember all those years ago from Halton, was doesn't the fuel have FSII in it??
 
Hammer and stillson said:
But wouldn't the fcoc heat exchange have stopped the ice from forming and if water was in the fuel other A/C at the start airport would have had it too maybe?
Click to expand...

Maybe the water wasn't in the fuel at source, but just in that particular A/C? Wouldn't this would point to lack of mainenance in drain offs?



D
 
RAF Bird said:
Oooh Norman your so matcho...... Did you have to google it for the spelling? :PDT_Xtremez_27:
Click to expand...

Google not required RAF Bird. As you know I love all hydro-carbon, petroleum based products and commit such information to memory. I often use it to impress colleagues and attractive young ladies alike. :PDT_Xtremez_15:
 
I was waiting for this thread to pop up after watching the news last night...


All i can say is it would never happen if TSW did the refuelling at Hong Kong ;)


Get the Wing Commander on the case...
 
Norman the Storeman said:
Google not required RAF Bird. As you know I love all hydro-carbon, petroleum based products and commit such information to memory. I often use it to impress colleagues and attractive young ladies alike. :PDT_Xtremez_15:
Click to expand...

With that sort of rhetoric you will also be attracting young colleagues too :PDT_Xtremez_17:!!


D
 
JET A1 (or F-35 as we know it as) does not have FSII. The vast majority of civillian operators do not use FSII in their fuel. The water content found in the B777 tanks was well within limits. The report suggests icing, but they are not 100% sure how the FOHE's were blocked (one for each engine) as it took a much higher content of water to produce such effects under test.

It is one incident in 6,500,000 hours of 777 operations.
 
I Look Like Kevin Costner said:
JET A1 (or F-35 as we know it as) does not have FSII. The vast majority of civillian operators do not use FSII in their fuel.
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So why do we still insist on using it in the MOD? And don't start all that stuff about anti-corrosion & lubricity propeties of FSII.

If a Tri-star or VC10 got diverted to Rio or Monte Video what fuel did it take on at those airports?

Did it manage to fly back to UK and/or MPA without any problems?

I think it did.

I have never got a straight answer from any engineer as to whether our aircraft could run perfectly fine on F-35 (Jet A1) or not.
 
Norman the Storeman said:
So why do we still insist on using it in the MOD? And don't start all that stuff about anti-corrosion & lubricity propeties of FSII.

If a Tri-star or VC10 got diverted to Rio or Monte Video what fuel did it take on at those airports?

Did it manage to fly back to UK and/or MPA without any problems?

I think it did.

I have never got a straight answer from any engineer as to whether our aircraft could run perfectly fine on F-35 (Jet A1) or not.
Click to expand...

I think it's because our old A/C don't have the internal fuel heating thingy, so are limited to altitude etc. when flying on F35... Got told this by a chief, years ago when doing an F35 trial on a tri star in Oman '01. He may, of course, been talking b0llocks!




D
 
dantura said:
I think it's because our old A/C don't have the internal fuel heating thingy, so are limited to altitude etc. when flying on F35... Got told this by a chief, years ago when doing an F35 trial on a tri star in Oman '01. He may, of course, been talking b0llocks!
D
Click to expand...

He was.

All aircraft I know of have Fuel Cooled Oil Coolers for Gas Turbine engines.

FSII has other uses apart from "anti ice". It does improve the lubricating properties of the fuel in regards to the fuel control systems. It also retards the growth of the fuel/water interface loving micro organisms present like Cladosporium resinae fungi and Pseudomonas aeruginosa bacteria. Hateful stuff for sooties or riggers to remove it.

FSII is always used if possibe for all the above reasons. The Adour 106 engines on the Jags could use F-35 for a limited period. However F-34 would have to be used for a set period afterwards before F-35 could be used again (without further authority).

Stackers, if you do BFI, You shoud know this!!

http://www.dstan.mod.uk/data/68/252/00000300.pdf
 
I thought that cladis was formed due to the prolonged standing of the fuel/water interface?
I have found massive jellyfish in blending rigs in the past, which contained F34FSII, but these had been standing for some time.
This is the reason why we have a QA program of continual flushing/circulating of fuel in any source/installation.
If F34 has been sitting for a long time, the AL48 separates and by its very nature attracts the suspended water in the fuel into pockets. This subsequently provides the perfect growing conditions for cladis.

Hence, this is the reason PSD's store AVTUR as F35 and blend it en-route to the user.
The QA requirements are far less for storing F35 as opposed for F34.


D
 
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