Is the role of NCA fully recognised by the wider RAF?

[MontyPlumbs]

"Is the role of NCA fully recognised by the wider RAF?"

I've responded to a request from an old pal whose currently at Sleaford Tech blundering his way through his NCAITC.

He's been asked to give a presentation on this subject, and would appreciate feedback from the Goat community.

Even dirty NCA swine are invited to express their 'opinion'. Retired RAF also welcome, although if you remember NCA Spitfire pilots I'm not sure it will be helpful! DT_Xtremez_14:

No pongos or fisheads though...I draw the line at that!

Any opinions will be 'taken on board'.

cheers,

MP

 

[Little Tronk]

You might want to move this to fight club now me thinks...............Light blue touch paper and stand well back.

That said, what exactly do you mean 'recognised' by the wider RAF, their role?

 

[MontyPlumbs]

You might want to move this to fight club now me thinks...............Light blue touch paper and stand well back.

That said, what exactly do you mean 'recognised' by the wider RAF, their role?

It's a genuine request. I think the thrust of it is does the rest of the RAF realise what roles NCA fulfil?

 

[Stevienics]

Without passing comment, I will offer your mate this much: When someone asks what someone else thinks, you need a primary (ie e relevant to subject) or secondary (ie indirect, but usable) data source, otherwise he will end up presenting pure conjecture and anecdotal evidence and probably pulled limb from limb.

Even if it is one compelling question which is posted as a poll here on the goat and can extrapolated, that would be something to use as a basis for an argument.

(Otherwise, use things like surveymonkey.com, which I have used before and which are free)

 

[Weebl]

The answer is 'probably not' but you could turn the question upside down and ask 'do NCA fully recognise the role of other trades in the wider RAF'

As with most trades in the RAF, the huge majority of those in other trades have very little idea of what they can do beyond that which impacts on your own trade.

Just that bare bones question would probably get some people answering 'yes' but if you questioned them most would have a narrow view drawn from their own experiences with whatever flavour of NCA they work alongside.

 

[grumpyoldb]

They just serve the coffee and bicky's don't they. I must admit, I never met one who knew how to empty the Elsan when I was on the line at Finningley. DT_Xtremez_14:

 

[Spearmint]

Monty, it wouldn't happen to be an ex-armourer colleague of yours whos knees gave out on him thus setting him back slightly would it?

My own views on the subject are only going to be biased as I am trying my hardest to re-muster to NCA at the moment but as far as I see it can be a very demanding job which carries a huge responsibility. For example, within the Rotary world where say a particular team of Commissioned Aircrew and NCA would have to know each other and how they operate quite closely as it could mean the difference between getting home safely and not at all.

Just an example mind you as the whole spectrum of the NCA world requires operators who are equally as adept as working in and without a team.

Going back to the original question though, ground trades who don't come into contact with NCA (those who work within the Fast Jet world) probably won't have much of an opinion without prior exposure. I myself spent a couple of years on the mighty Puma and from what I saw they where usually pretty good people to know. Although on occasion the more greener of the variety would get quite ****y on the Rotors Running Refuels but eventually mellowed out with experience.

 

[Ex-Bay]

My Dad was NCA; bombers.

Chuck Yeager's comments in "the Right Stuff" are worth quoting (something to the effect that it matters not, as long as you are good at it).

As I see it, there would be no real difference between one aircraft trade and another if Sgt Pilots were permitted to fly several million quids worth.

But whether the gentlemanly class would agree is another matter.

 

[vim_fuego]

I hadn't heard of a 'peanut' before coming on here although I would have had contact with them at some point...Nor did I know what JAFAD meant.

I think your friend needs to be investigating the relevence of having a SNCO flying, why they are that rank or higher, do they intergrate into the plan for their station with regards to Orderly dog/guard commander etc.

I would hazard a guess that most people know of NCA even if its just that they exist and nothing beyond that...Certainly many struggle with my role as its mostly caveated beyond most people...

 

[PingDit]

Well, for my ten-pennyworth; I joined up as a radar mech and subsequently completed my fitters course 5 years later - I'd like to have finished it sooner but I was in Cyprus with my wife for 3 years in between. When I returned, I remustered to aircrew. All I can say is; it's been an absolute pleasure to have been part of the flying community - and I'd say exactly the same about being in the groundie community. Take your pick!

Ping.

P.S. If matey wants any specifics, ask away.

 

[Get Tae]

Your friend might want to ask another question which has been done to death on here before. I am sure a quick search of the old threads will provide fruit.

Its the one as to "why do you need to be a SNCO to be rear end aircrew?"

I worked with most at ISK and as with every trade there are good and bad. Personally I found the majority to be good eggs. The younger ones should and do know that they are at the bottom of the pile and nor really respected as a 'proper' SNCO in the big scale of things.

I certainly recognise the sterling job that they so, especially the SAR guys but everyone has a job to do, everyone is important.

I would be unimpressed if I were a JNCO and had a smally plastic on SGF as guard commander but that is life.

I can already hear the "well you should have stuck in at school and joined as NCA" brigade but personally it never interested me and I actually never had any contact with NCA until I moved over to GE duties at ISK as I was first line bomber my whole career until that point.

My question would be why do we need NCA aircrew when most air forces in the world have them go through the ranks like every one else.
I am not sure but isn't it something to do with SNCO's getting better treatment if captured by the Kraut.

I know you can say "if they don't have the Sgt rank then we wont attract the right type of person" but you could say that about any trade in the RAF surely?

Like I say, they have their world, the hofficers have theirs and the rest just do with and get on.

I have to say it did used to amuse me somewhat in the mess when the young 'uns used to get a bit lairy and there was then a rendition of "does your momma know that you're out" or a low chant of "you never were a Corporal"

In the big picture I take every person I ever met on face value, treat me like a tw*t and you get it back but I personally think that NCA know very little about being a SNCO, certainly in the beginning and cannot have the experience of a 'proper' Sgt but as they progress its down to the individual.

More appreciation of what the rest of the RAF do would help considerably and maybe a rethink of the rank structure. A start at even JNCO for the first 5 years might be a way forward.......

Over to you

 

[MrMasher]

Having worked Chinnies, Pumas and Seakings I can quite safely say that the rear enders take a lot of flak for being plastic snecks. To be honest, that is an ill perceived misconception. On the whole they are very professional and very approachable. In fact, considering that they are aircrew, they're very down to earth!
I don't know about Vim and his coffee serving brethren but SH crews work hard and socialise with the groundcrew hard!

 

[vim_fuego]

Having worked Chinnies, Pumas and Seakings I can quite safely say that the rear enders take a lot of flak for being plastic snecks. To be honest, that is an ill perceived misconception. On the whole they are very professional and very approachable. In fact, considering that they are aircrew, they're very down to earth!
I don't know about Vim and his coffee serving brethren but SH crews work hard and socialise with the groundcrew hard!

*splutter*

I'm not a fixed wing loady!

Airborne techs bring me my victuals then they back away head bowing as they go...

 

[grumpyoldb]

*splutter*

I'm not a fixed wing loady!

Airborne techs bring me my victuals then they back away head bowing as they go...

Ah............ so if there is a lack of respect between the NCA trades, why should they expect it from TG1 and other trades...............? DT_Xtremez_14:

 

[vim_fuego]

Ah............ so if there is a lack of respect between the NCA trades, why should they expect it from TG1 and other trades...............? DT_Xtremez_14:

Where is the lack of respect? I'm merely saying that I'm not a fixed wing loady. Why did you single out TG1 then add as an afterthought 'other trades'? During my working day I come into contact mostly with other crew but after that it would be ops staff/met...The only TG1 I would hopefully see and talk to is the GE as that means everything is working...The see-off crew don't normally come up the steps unless it is pee'ing down...From this you can gather the only thing we share is the Sqn number...all else is minimal sadly.

 

[Harry B'Stard]

I think that it's not just the NCA role which isn't widely understood.

It's all trades to a certain extent.

Stackers... Hoard Spares, don't issue the last one on the shelf

Drivers... Turn up late with the coach

Chef's... Burn everything, even the salad

Pilots... turn up at the jet, strap in fly for a bit, break the jet and fook off early for tea and medals

I could go on, but you get the idea!DT_Xtremez_19: All trades have a stereotype!DT_Xtremez_30:

But do you really know all the ins and outs of what each trade does... no. I doubt that you know all the individual roles that apply to your own trade!

All trades have been squeezed and asked to do more tasks, multi skilling etc, so it's not easy to tie down what a trade does, only make sweeping statements!

HTB

 

[MrMasher]

.The only TG1 I would hopefully see and talk to is the GE as that means everything is working...The see-off crew don't normally come up the steps unless it is pee'ing down...From this you can gather the only thing we share is the Sqn number...all else is minimal sadly.

That is actually quite sad. It shows the difference between fixed wing and rotary.

 

[MontyPlumbs]

Thanks for the response guys I'm sure it was what he was after.

Stevie, I'm sure he's not stupid enough to base an entire presentation on what is on the Goat, he's just trying to cover all his angles and get as wide a net of information as possible. You can get some good gen on these hallowed pages sometimes!

Spearmint, yes it is that very same broken ex-Armourer!

|For the record, until I went away on work on JHF, I knew little about NCA apart from the ALM on VC10s. I have to say the guys I worked with by and large were great, really professional and hard working, sometimes in really bad situations. They had a great relationship with the Chinnie pilots too.

There were a couple of throbbers, but every trade has them!

I agree re: comments on the other trades. I'd never heard of a JAFAD until I joined the Goat! DT_Xtremez_14: (or met a copper I didn't want to punch...)

 

[Doneit]

Ah............ so if there is a lack of respect between the NCA trades, why should they expect it from TG1 and other trades...............? DT_Xtremez_14:

Off TopicFrom what I recall, aren't Airborne Techs are in fact brevet wearing TG1 personnel? More specifically, Avionics...Off Topic

 

[vim_fuego]

Off TopicFrom what I recall, aren't Airborne Techs are in fact brevet wearing TG1 personnel? More specifically, Avionics...Off Topic

Yes they are...