Welcome to E-Goat :: The Totally Unofficial Royal Air Force Rumour Network
Join our free community to unlock a range of benefits like:
  • Post and participate in discussions.
  • Send and receive private messages with other members.
  • Respond to polls and surveys.
  • Upload and share content.
  • Gain access to exclusive features and tools.
Join 7.5K others today

Is this the way ahead?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Dirk Thrust
  • Start date Start date
  • Following weeks of work, the E-GOAT team are delighted to present to you a new look to the forums with plenty of new features. Take a look around and see what you think!
Trending This Week
View More Trending
D

Dirk Thrust

Guest
Ops at Odiham as it was is no more. Flight Planning has been moved to 18 Sqn and the remaining Ops jobs and some of the staff have been moved to ATC. The only thing that remains are the SNCO controllers.

The post of SLOPs has been disestablished.

Is this going to happen Airforce wide? Any one got any views?
 
'bout time. So much duplication of effort and nugatory phone calls. No wonder Ops/ATC always got frustrated with each other.
 
The "frustration" is the lack of knowledge that people have for each others roles.

It will be interesting to see how Odiham works out Dirk, at least ATC cant blame Ops for any screw ups now!

:PDT_Xtremez_42:
 
I can't say that I am surprised, in this age of leaning it was only a matter of time before someone looked at the systems in place. At least they seem to be leaning themselves before the penny pinchers get hold of them and force them into changes.
Considering the FMDL at the moment surely the centralisation of some functions has to be the way to go, why not expand it to have a central Ops/ FLt Planning that deal with alll the aircrew and when they have finished planning they are then bussed to their aircraft.
 
So who looks after PCM? The Stn War Plan? CFE/Arms Control Inspections? What about all the other contingency planning? Any all they other often forgotten functions like that?

Odiham have always seemed to have a dislike to ops staff. Is that becuse of personalities or becuase the genuinely dont need ops staff?
 
It could work at one or two smaller stations, but across the board? I think not......

Well, you could centralise everyting in one big building with Ops, Flt Planning, Tasking, Sqns etc etc etc and not forgetting a small Ivory Tower on top, but what of the cost to build such a white elephant?......

Exactly. Small station possibly - Big Station, no way.
 
FormerFlake said:
Odiham have always seemed to have a dislike to ops staff. Is that becuse of personalities or becuase the genuinely dont need ops staff?
Click to expand...

I take issue with your remark FF.

I can't answer for previous times, however, during my time at Odiham (about 2 years) there has been a lot of work done by a lot of people to dispell any sort of inter trade discord between people working in Ops, either on Sqns of Stn Ops, and the Tower. I admit it has taken a lot of, how can I say it diplomaticaly, re-education of the Stn hiarchey, but on the whole all TG9 personnel extremley work well together.

Most of the changes at Odiham have not been driven by one factor, MANPOWER. With the state of the trade ; FMDL,DWRs, PVRs and additionally Odiham supporting Op HERRICK, we are running out of people.

Additionaly, Odiham are conducting 'High Utilisation Trials'. The Tower is manned to open from 0800 to 2200, however, it is regularly open from 0700 to 0400.

As you can see, its a case of either redeploy the staff we have or end up with a lot of worn out people and more PVRs. Yes the Tower have picked up more jobs, but they have been given more personnel to help with the extra workload and to offset manpower issues.

We had to do something before the whole system broke

Not rocket science is it.........
:PDT_Xtremez_30: :PDT_Xtremez_28:
 
Part Time PFOM said:
I take issue with your remark FF.

I can't answer for previous times, however, during my time at Odiham (about 2 years) there has been a lot of work done by a lot of people to dispell any sort of inter trade discord between people working in Ops, either on Sqns of Stn Ops, and the Tower. I admit it has taken a lot of, how can I say it diplomaticaly, re-education of the Stn hiarchey, but on the whole all TG9 personnel extremley work well together.

Most of the changes at Odiham have not been driven by one factor, MANPOWER. With the state of the trade ; FMDL,DWRs, PVRs and additionally Odiham supporting Op HERRICK, we are running out of people.

Additionaly, Odiham are conducting 'High Utilisation Trials'. The Tower is manned to open from 0800 to 2200, however, it is regularly open from 0700 to 0400.

As you can see, its a case of either redeploy the staff we have or end up with a lot of worn out people and more PVRs. Yes the Tower have picked up more jobs, but they have been given more personnel to help with the extra workload and to offset manpower issues.

We had to do something before the whole system broke

Not rocket science is it.........
:PDT_Xtremez_30: :PDT_Xtremez_28:
Click to expand...

Thanks for ther clarification. I used the word 'seemed' deliberately, there is some history there which appears to be over. The second part you quoted was a question, not a statement.

I just hope all the efforts have not given the powers that be the idea all is well with all the cuts. It will all go horrible wrong if they keep cutting and changing all the time.
 
FormerFlake said:
I just hope all the efforts have not given the powers that be the idea all is well with all the cuts. It will all go horrible wrong if they keep cutting and changing all the time.
Click to expand...


I agree with you 100%, it is going to need all of us to keep an eye on the changes and if it all starts going to rats sh*t having the the bottle to stand up and say in a loud voice STOP .

The main trouble I can see is that the 'powers that be' will look towards Odiham and think this is the way ahead and forge ahead with more and more radical changes, just to get 'smartie' points for themselves.
 
As someone who worked with F3s on 9/11 I was lucky enough to see the standard/traditional Ops system work amazingly well.

Ops, Eng Ops and the Loggies worked in a tried and tested manner and got an incredible amount of work done, in very little time. All this was done with any special guidlines or SOPS, it was pretty much unpresidented action. I'm sure I don't need to spell out what was going on in the UKADR at the time, or that we were all expecting ac diverting back from over the pond.


If it ain't broken, dont fix it is a good moto, but sadly not cost effective these days.

So if it ain't broken, try and do it cheaper.:PDT_Xtremez_42:
 
A little fine tuning needed at Odiham I think. Why the fcuk are flying complaints form Petersfield and Basingstoke, both in Hampshire I believe, being redirected to a helicopter training base in Shropshire?
 
FormerFlake said:
As someone who worked with F3s on 9/11 I was lucky enough to see the standard/traditional Ops system work amazingly well.

Ops, Eng Ops and the Loggies worked in a tried and tested manner and got an incredible amount of work done, in very little time. All this was done with any special guidlines or SOPS, it was pretty much unpresidented action. I'm sure I don't need to spell out what was going on in the UKADR at the time, or that we were all expecting ac diverting back from over the pond.


If it ain't broken, dont fix it is a good moto, but sadly not cost effective these days.

So if it ain't broken, try and do it cheaper.:PDT_Xtremez_42:
Click to expand...


As someone who also saw it all happen on 9/11, and has since seen numerous similar scenarios, whilst we always make it work (because we are military), we don't half make it difficult on ourselves. I am not one for automatic 'leaning', but the amount of duplication of effort we make in something as simple as a QRA launch (after all, we have been doing this for a number of years) is amazing.

My stance, let's have a look at how we do business. That is not me saying we should change things, merely we should constantly assess our performance.
 
Of course constant reassesment is vital. However, Ops staff working along side Eng Ops and Log Ops works very well. If you seperate Ops staff from the Engineers and Loggies you can make trouble for yourselves.

A prime example of this is the VC10s. The Ops and aircrew sit in a building on one side of the airfield, the Engineers etc are on the other side of the airfield. Also the Engineers work for OC Eng Wing, not OC 10 or 101 Sqn. Zero comunciation takes place, and to be fair, it is normally the Engineers who know what going on!!

99 Sqn and 216 Sqn have their Air Ops next door to Eng Ops, it works!!!
 
Last edited:
J Y Kelly said:
A little fine tuning needed at Odiham I think. Why the fcuk are flying complaints form Petersfield and Basingstoke, both in Hampshire I believe, being redirected to a helicopter training base in Shropshire?
Click to expand...

I think they are being redirected from elsewhere, not Odiham........I have spent many a fun filled night filling in complaints and even though I was tempted I never redirected them to a helicopter training base in Shropshire............however watch this space:PDT_Xtremez_30:

FF, I agree with you about Ops staff working along side Eng Ops and Log Ops. Odiham's Engineers and Loggies have been moved to SCAF, a major eror IMHO, but like all the mamoth F*kc ups nobody ever asks the guys at the coal face.

Will they never learn???:PDT_Xtremez_42: :PDT_Xtremez_42:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top