Kissing goodbye to my leave...

[Mr_Mover]

Hello,

I'm currently based at a minor Army unit where it has recently been decreed that we will not be able to carry over 15 days into next year's leave allowance. The Adminers, under the instruction of the Top Corridor, are going to zero everyone's leave as of next April. In essence, we've been told "use it or lose it." Are they actually able to do this? If so, can someone point me in the right direction of the applicable JSP? Due to the numerous duties I've been on plus my OOA, I'm never going to be able to use all the leave I've accumulated and so fear losing it through no fault of my own.

Many Thanks
S.

 

[shimmeringbottom]

Hello,

I'm currently based at a minor Army unit where it has recently been decreed that we will not be able to carry over 15 days into next year's leave allowance. The Adminers, under the instruction of the Top Corridor, are going to zero everyone's leave as of next April. In essence, we've been told "use it or lose it." Are they actually able to do this? If so, can someone point me in the right direction of the applicable JSP? Due to the numerous duties I've been on plus my OOA, I'm never going to be able to use all the leave I've accumulated and so fear losing it through no fault of my own.

Many Thanks
S.

JSP 760 - 1.010

15 days are automatically carried forward. More than this then apply to CO.

If you register on 'airspace' you can download the JSP in order for you to have a good luck at it if you want to!

...It is MOD Policy that COs enable their personnel to take the full 38 days leave unless unable to for operational reasons.....

The Management of leave is the responsibility of the Chain of Command (0.005) somehow I don't think this means delete it from the system....anyway they can't its automatically carried forward!

Cheeky fcukers!

 

[riffraff]

Regulations and trade aside. My purely personal opinion is that at this point I would be on JPA submitting leave passes for my full entitlement and probably getting them rejected. Then when they zero my leave entitlement I have a solid case for a Service Complaint.

 

[Mr_Mover]

Thanks to the pair of you for your replies, they were both exactly what I was looking for. I'm usually pretty organised with my leave in advance but this stipulation was brought in whilst I was OOA. I came back in September and was told I had 32 days of leave to use up by April. However, I couldn't put any in until the end of November at the earliest because I'm covering the duties of everyone else who is now OOA. As has been suggested, I've been throwing leave passes in and getting them rejected just so I've got a leg to stand on when it comes to the inevitable clash in April.

Thanks
S.

 

[Humble Scribe]

It would appear that either they, you or I have misnterpreted a new leave policy which has been issued recently. I beleive that the requirement to zero leave balances every 3 years is associated with additional leave over and above the 15 days that you are entitled to C/f every year although the policy is very ambiguous. Leave over and above the 15 days that is automatically carry forward is now lifed for the duration of your tour at the authorising unit or for 3 years; I believe that is what is being zeroed not your additional 15 days.

Co-incidentally the direction is that all personnel must take at least 28 days leave per year so if you haven't taken your full 28 days your management is not adhering to this policy.

 

[Mr_Mover]

It would appear that either they, you or I have misnterpreted a new leave policy which has been issued recently. I beleive that the requirement to zero leave balances every 3 years is associated with additional leave over and above the 15 days that you are entitled to C/f every year although the policy is very ambiguous. Leave over and above the 15 days that is automatically carry forward is now lifed for the duration of your tour at the authorising unit or for 3 years; I believe that is what is being zeroed not your additional 15 days.

Co-incidentally the direction is that all personnel must take at least 28 days leave per year so if you haven't taken your full 28 days your management is not adhering to this policy.

That's exactly how it was explained to me by PSF however, our bosses have decided that they don't want anyone to carry across their 15 days because of the extra strain it places on manning. I can see where they are coming from but the 3 - 6 months per year OOA we do is a key reason why we can't take all of our leave allowance and why we're having to carry it over.

 

[busby1971]

Advice

Advice

That's exactly how it was explained to me by PSF however, our bosses have decided that they don't want anyone to carry across their 15 days because of the extra strain it places on manning. I can see where they are coming from but the 3 - 6 months per year OOA we do is a key reason why we can't take all of our leave allowance and why we're having to carry it over.

When negative management decisions like this happen I think you need to withdraw a bit of goodwill, putting leave in all over ther place is a good idea.

However, a come back from management may be why didn't you take leave on this day or that, these being days that you didn't want to take leave. That aside let them take your leave then redress them, print off the JSP now so you've got your grounds.

 

[Teh Wal]

In Civvy-World an employee can request leave/holiday time but his/her manager can refuse it, however the manager can dictate when individual employees will take time off - i.e. he can tell me to take leave/holiday time between 10 - 24 November even if it doesn't suit me. And that is covered by law. I dunno if the same applies within service, never had to look into it that closely, but if everyone is in the same boat then line managers should be exercising that particular managerial tool in an attempt to ensure that people get all their leave taken - as distasteful as it is! DT_Xtremez_21:

 

[raflad67]

JSP 760 says, that 'stockpiling' of leave is to be discourged and after 3 years or at the end of a tour, whichever is sooner, personnel are to take all untaken leave. The leave is to be taken whilst on the strength of the losing unit.

So if you are lucky enought to have a 'stockpile' then after 3 years you either take it, or lose it.

Getting back to your question, they can't do this and if they do then redress the bar stewards as has been said.

 

[rest have risen above me]

In Civvy-World an employee can request leave/holiday time but his/her manager can refuse it, however the manager can dictate when individual employees will take time off - i.e. he can tell me to take leave/holiday time between 10 - 24 November even if it doesn't suit me. And that is covered by law. I dunno if the same applies within service, never had to look into it that closely, but if everyone is in the same boat then line managers should be exercising that particular managerial tool in an attempt to ensure that people get all their leave taken - as distasteful as it is! DT_Xtremez_21:

I did this at my last unit. but only to ensure the lads didn't lose any leave as they were all a bunch of RAF cabbages and didn't want to miss anything, it also helped that I would just volunteer them for guard on those weeks if they didn't take it when I wanted them too. he he .
On a serious note I did make them take leave but it's just a management function to help the less experienced members manage their leave correctly.

 

[feckinG RANT]

This new leave thing is just another nail in the coffin as far as I'm concerned. I've carried over 15 days since I joined up in 1990. So what? I'm credited my annual balance, I take the 15 carried over and some more to leave 15 again. So in essence I have taken the full amount.

Take it to extremes, in one year I blow my full balance and then the extra 15, what harm has it done? None really. I bet most people have carried over leave for years, they leave the RAF and cash it in to get out of the door a bit earlier.

All the problems that need addressing and some knob head decides the No. 1 priority is jacking everyone of by messing with their leave! Great! And the RAF wants me to stay on to do LOS 30? Think again!

 

[Digzster]

Exactly right!

Exactly right!

Thanks to the pair of you for your replies, they were both exactly what I was looking for. I'm usually pretty organised with my leave in advance but this stipulation was brought in whilst I was OOA. I came back in September and was told I had 32 days of leave to use up by April. However, I couldn't put any in until the end of November at the earliest because I'm covering the duties of everyone else who is now OOA. As has been suggested, I've been throwing leave passes in and getting them rejected just so I've got a leg to stand on when it comes to the inevitable clash in April.

Thanks
S.

Being a cynical sod, I would also print off the rejected leave applications and not just leave them on JPA. All printouts are timestamped & dated. Don't leave all your ammo in the one tin for when the battle commences as "finger trouble" can wipe all record.

 

[Mr_Mover]

Being a cynical sod, I would also print off the rejected leave applications and not just leave them on JPA. All printouts are timestamped & dated. Don't leave all your ammo in the one tin for when the battle commences as "finger trouble" can wipe all record.

Yes, I've always done this because of the lack of manning and nature of shift work when I was stationed at Brize. In fact, after the introduction of JPA, my Sgt at the time encouraged us to do this so we had a decent "carry more leave" case to put forward to our Boss at the end of the leave year.

 

[FootTapper]

JSP 760 says, that 'stockpiling' of leave is to be discourged and after 3 years or at the end of a tour, whichever is sooner, personnel are to take all untaken leave. The leave is to be taken whilst on the strength of the losing unit.

From reading that - "all untaken leave" sounds to me like it includes the 15 day carryover.

So at the three years point (from posting in?) or at the tourex point you either take "all" remaining leave balance, or you lose it. Wonder what happens if you get posted two weeks after the leave year starts - are you expected to use up your entire annual allowance?

But more pressingly - if the system is to start the "3 years" from April - it does need clarification if that's surplus leave that will need to be used or lost, or "all untaken leave" - ie your entire leave balance

 

[busby1971]

Tosh

Tosh

From reading that - "all untaken leave" sounds to me like it includes the 15 day carryover.

So at the three years point (from posting in?) or at the tourex point you either take "all" remaining leave balance, or you lose it. Wonder what happens if you get posted two weeks after the leave year starts - are you expected to use up your entire annual allowance?

But more pressingly - if the system is to start the "3 years" from April - it does need clarification if that's surplus leave that will need to be used or lost, or "all untaken leave" - ie your entire leave balance

The 15 days you carry forward are from the last leave year not 3 years hence, so it shouldn't be zero'd full stop.

 

[Hcut99]

typical really

typical really

I have always argued that they should do what they did in my old civvie job, they paid you for any untaken days at the end of the financial year, everyone was happy and no backlogs.


cup of corrrfeeespending the day