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'Late' SJAR

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MattBombHead

MattBombHead

Sergeant
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It looks like despite me 'chasing' as much as humanly possible, my 2nd RO isn't going to have completed my SJAR in time for the 1 Nov deadline at Manning.

Questions...

1. How will this affect me?
2. If it does affect me, what can I do about it?

Thanks in advance.
 
What rank are you? The reason I ask is that I am trying to figure out what the 1 nov deadline is, is it pre boarding or the finalisation date? If the latter, no need to overly concern yourself as the board is not due yet, although I would chase your 2nd RO. As an RO myself, I have no issue with my staff chasing me, it keeps me on my toes. Bottom line, if you miss the board due to the 2RO not completing the report, the only redress you have will be to submit a service complaint. I would speak to your 2RO and try and get this resolved, so you don't have to resort to a service complaint.
 
Cpl reports, although due to be finalised by 1 Nov iaw JSP 757, will not be pre-boarded until well into the following year (March/April). That said, those RO's who sit on them are only making life harder for themselves as the SAC's come along around Christmas time. It has happened twice in the last two years on my unit with 2nd RO's sitting on SAC reports, only for Ellamy & Escalin to kick off in March. They then tried to use that as an excuse for the reports taking until July to complete, and received zero sympathy from me, seeing as they should have been completed before 1 March.

There is a massive push at my unit (not before time) to get them done on time. The new Wg Cdr has already read the riot act to his Sqn Ldrs over how he wont tolerate late reports, and will comment appropriately on how the Sqn Ldrs perform in this respect (Subordinate Development). As someone who has been banging his head against a brick wall wrt hastening senior officers over appraisals, it was music to my ears!
 
muttywhitedog said:
Cpl reports, although due to be finalised by 1 Nov iaw JSP 757, will not be pre-boarded until well into the following year (March/April). That said, those RO's who sit on them are only making life harder for themselves as the SAC's come along around Christmas time. It has happened twice in the last two years on my unit with 2nd RO's sitting on SAC reports, only for Ellamy & Escalin to kick off in March. They then tried to use that as an excuse for the reports taking until July to complete, and received zero sympathy from me, seeing as they should have been completed before 1 March.

There is a massive push at my unit (not before time) to get them done on time. The new Wg Cdr has already read the riot act to his Sqn Ldrs over how he wont tolerate late reports, and will comment appropriately on how the Sqn Ldrs perform in this respect (Subordinate Development). As someone who has been banging his head against a brick wall wrt hastening senior officers over appraisals, it was music to my ears!
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Sometimes, getting the SACs reports done by March is a struggle (dependant on the number of reports). I'm only speaking from a 2nd RO perspective as I had (for several years) around 50 - 60 to report on. The 1st ROs lack of urgency can be a real pain in some cicumstances.
 
MWD It is indeed the JNCO reports.

So what's the deal with the 1 Nov 'must be at manning deadline'?

As for anything else, my 2RO has mine and one other report to write, and he's had it in his workflow for a minimum of 3 weeks...

His excuse - he doesn't feel he knows me adequately, so is 'seeking advice from my previous line managers'...
 
Matt - The deal is that each rank has a reporting period, and the appraisals are due to be finalised 2 months after then. If this wasnt enforced, then there would be a bottleneck of appraisals hitting ACOS just as pre-boarding was about to take place. The pre-boarding cell has about 6 people in it, and every late appraisal causes them to stop pre-boarding a particular rank & trade to sort out a previous issue, causing a knock-on effect. Whilst your 2RO's comments are believeable, I would ask as to why he/she has waited until late October to check you out with previous LM's.

Realist - Do you tell the 1st ROs when they are to be with you? I take it that if you do and they dont comply, you comment appropriately on those who cant sort their appraisals out in time. I ask, because I have had this conversations with all the SAC's 2ROs at my unit recently, seeing as timely compilation is being driven from the OC downwards (at long last!). I told them to tell the 1st ROs when they are to be with the 2nd RO, otherwise they'll be waiting a very long time. Funnily enough, every one of those 2nd ROs has now formally set a date at which the reports are to be with them.
 
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muttywhitedog said:
Matt - The deal is that each rank has a reporting period, and the appraisals are due to be finalised 2 months after then. If this wasnt enforced, then there would be a bottleneck of appraisals hitting ACOS just as pre-boarding was about to take place. The pre-boarding cell has about 6 people in it, and every late appraisal causes them to stop pre-boarding a particular rank & trade to sort out a previous issue, causing a knock-on effect.
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Fair point.


muttywhitedog said:
Whilst your 2RO's comments are believeable, I would ask as to why he/she has waited until late October to check you out with previous LM's.
Click to expand...

I've no idea, and little to no chance of finding out... As an aside, he waited until last week to decide this...


Sent from my iPad2 using Tapatalk
 
muttywhitedog said:
Matt - The deal is that each rank has a reporting period, and the appraisals are due to be finalised 2 months after then. If this wasnt enforced, then there would be a bottleneck of appraisals hitting ACOS just as pre-boarding was about to take place. The pre-boarding cell has about 6 people in it, and every late appraisal causes them to stop pre-boarding a particular rank & trade to sort out a previous issue, causing a knock-on effect. Whilst your 2RO's comments are believeable, I would ask as to why he/she has waited until late October to check you out with previous LM's.

Realist - Do you tell the 1st ROs when they are to be with you? I take it that if you do and they dont comply, you comment appropriately on those who cant sort their appraisals out in time. I ask, because I have had this conversations with all the SAC's 2ROs at my unit recently, seeing as timely compilation is being driven from the OC downwards (at long last!). I told them to tell the 1st ROs when they are to be with the 2nd RO, otherwise they'll be waiting a very long time. Funnily enough, every one of those 2nd ROs has now formally set a date at which the reports are to be with them.
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Thankfully, MWD, I don't have to deal with that hassle anymore but I'm glad to hear that more pressure is being brought to bear from above wrt to deadlines etc.
 
I know at a secret West Midlands training camp there is a particular section where they've written a message to all RO's on a notice board. It says...

All RO's failing to submit SJAR's on time will be subject to MAA.

Does anywhere else do this?

HTB
 
As above. I'm glad to be chased as a 2RO on reports. Not only does it "keep me on my toes" but it's a failsafe in case the flawless admin system we all love goes t1ts up.
 
Harry B'Stard said:
I know at a secret West Midlands training camp there is a particular section where they've written a message to all RO's on a notice board. It says...

All RO's failing to submit SJAR's on time will be subject to MAA.

Does anywhere else do this?

HTB
Click to expand...

Does it apply to 3rd ROs?:PDT_Xtremez_14:
 
I'm not a fan of late sjars either but with the number that some RO's have to do on top of their actual day job which is not always practical. I am not in an sjar writing position myself and don't really fancy having to, but would put the effort in as it affects peoples careers(if you can call it that) I still don't think it's always as easy as some think though.
 
If a RO hasn't done the job of writing his reports within the timescales advertised surely HIS RO should be writing on him stating his management skills are not up to scratch?
 
Of course they are. However, in reality, they dont, particularly the commissioned types. In 20+ years, I have only ever seen one comment to that effect, and it sticks with me to this day:

"Sqn Ldr XXX's staff work is of a high standard, however it can sometimes be late, which leads to embarrassment further up the command chain".

That was written by a Wg Cdr Pilot on his Exec, who had repeatedly been late submitting his 1RO narratives to the Boss, leaving the OC with little or no time to compile his narratives before they were due with the Staish (in those days, all officer reports went to the CO). From that day on, the said Sqn Ldr changed his ways totally, and became a paperwork monkey, never missing a deadline again.

Earlier this year, I had a Flt Lt who was 2RO for around 6 Cpls and 5 SACs. The Cpls ones (due completion 1 Nov) were finally done by the 2nd RO in mid-Feb, and the SACs (due by 1 Mar) were completed in mid-Jun. This Flt Lt also failed their MSFT. Despite numerous prompts to both the Flt Lt, and the Sqn Ldr, it took me bringing it up at Wg Execs in front of all the other Sqn Ldrs, before this particular Sqn Ldr would get a grip of his Flt Lt. Out of the meeting, he told me how he felt let down by this Flt Lt, who had assured him they'd all been done. I challenged him to write accordingly on the OJAR - I even gave him the very words above as an example.

The spineless hypocrite wrote how this particular Flt Lt was his No1 and all tasks were completed to the highest standards and well within deadlines. At that moment I lost all respect for that guy and told him so. As someone who will tell people what they need to hear rather than what they want to hear I had no qualms about telling him what a pack of bullsh!t he'd written. He didnt say a word in reply.

That Flt Lt has just been selected for promotion partly based on the narrative he wrote.
 
Shiny_Rob said:
If a RO hasn't done the job of writing his reports within the timescales advertised surely HIS RO should be writing on him stating his management skills are not up to scratch?
Click to expand...

Interrupto Bastado said:
What a silly comment.
Click to expand...

Not sure I follow? A comment should be made if this person shows consistent failings after they have been made aware of them (MPAR anyone?). Mutty provides a perfect example at the start of his last post and it's not a surprise to see that 'they' are looking after each other.
 
IMHO a lot of RO's are not proactive enough (or at all).

If you know you are an RO then it should come as no surprise that you have to write some SJAR's every now and then! Be proactive and do it as you go along (or at least keep notes etc)...it's not rocket science. This would then make the compilation a little easier instead of leaving it in your workflow...and leaving it...then getting hastened...and hastened again... before finally writing it - probably not as good as it should be.

FFS appraisals are the most important thing your line manager can do for you and they should make a great job of it.

Well that's my opinion...and like they say opinions are like a-holes...everyone has one. so I will stfu
 
muttywhitedog said:
Please enlighten us as to how you make sure you are given adequate time to compile your 2nd RO narratives so that they make the deadlines for finalising?
Click to expand...

Simples: I speak to the 1RO after he/she has complied their grading and narrative. We ensure this is done well within the reporting period window so that there is no conflict in the report. This ensures a timely report is submitted and no conflict exists between the 1RO/2RO narratives.
 
Interrupto Bastado said:
What a silly comment.
Click to expand...

I don't follow either; as a RO part of your role is to provide timely and accurate reports on your subjects, if you are not then you are not performing your role as expected; this should then be commented on in your SJAR by your RO, so why is it a "silly comment"?
 
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