NATO ISAF Medal - Mess dress No 5s

[Polkiol]

I have a Afghan OSM which I wear on my No1s. The ISAF NATO medal I also have I know I cannot wear on my No1s but can I wear it as a minature on my mess dress with the OSM?

I know we cannot wear 2 medals for the same tour on our 1s.

 

[SgtScribbly]

Not sure I could find it written down but I am pretty sure you can only wear the ones that are on your No1s.

 

[Green_garfield]

The ISAF medal is only a keep-sake and cannot be worn I did see it written down somewhere.

You can wear two medals for the same campaign, During the Koren war british soldiers were awarded a service medal from the queen and a UN medal because it was a UN mission and troops were allowed to wear both.

 

[FILTHYRIGGER]

[/QUOTE] You can wear two medals for the same campaign, During the Koren war british soldiers were awarded a service medal from the queen and a UN medal because it was a UN mission and troops were allowed to wear both.[/QUOTE]

Partly correct.
The Korean War was an exception to the rule. Although there have also been a couple of other exceptions. The general rule is that two medals for the same campaigne cannot be worn on uniform.

 

[Douglas Bader's Right Leg]

There is a list somewhere of medals authorised for wear by service personnel; the ISAF medal is not on it and thus is not to be worn - ask your SWO. On the plus side you can wear when you retire. IIRC the Korea medals were issued for seperate Ops - the GSM for the war and the UN one for peacekeeping.

 

[SgtScribbly]

I think the OP was enquiring as to the rules about wearing it on his mess dress. I often hear a bit of chat about whether you can (or cannot) wear the minature on No5s, but have never seen anything to back it up.

 

[Stingray]

I think the OP was enquiring as to the rules about wearing it on his mess dress. I often hear a bit of chat about whether you can (or cannot) wear the minature on No5s, but have never seen anything to back it up.

Rumour and speculation....I heard that you can wear non-standard, queeny approved medals on No5's also.
Was at a function where I saw a guy with US given ribbons vice medals on the right hand side of his mess dress.
Must be a JSP hero here who can find out for sure???????????

 

[Climebear]

Rumour and speculation....I heard that you can wear non-standard, queeny approved medals on No5's also.
Was at a function where I saw a guy with US given ribbons vice medals on the right hand side of his mess dress.
Must be a JSP hero here who can find out for sure???????????

The regulations are contained in AP1358 Chap 8 that is available on the RAF Internet site.

FOREIGN INSIGNIA

Acceptance and Permission to Wear

0818. Insignia of foreign orders, decorations and medals, conferred by Heads of Governments of foreign status and by members of the Commonwealth overseas of which the Sovereign is not Head of State may only be accepted or worn with the prior permission of the Sovereign. Two kinds of permission are given, namely unrestricted and restricted. The former authorises the insignia to be worn on all occasions when
British insignia are worn and the latter limits wear to specific occasions. Authority in regard to foreign orders is signified by either:

a. Warrant under the Royal Sign Manual which grants unrestricted permission to wear the insignia, or

b. Is published in the London Gazette, or

c. Letter from the Sovereign's Private Secretary to the person concerned granting restricted permission and indicating the occasions when the insignia may be worn.​

State decorations not carrying membership of an order of chivalry and medals are subject to the same regulations as orders but permission is conveyed by letter. However, campaign and commemorative war medals are subject to a different procedure as details of these awards and entitlement to wear the insignia are promulgated at the appropriate time by the Ministry of Defence. Medals for saving or attempting to save life on land or at sea, whether conferred on behalf of the head of Government of a foreign state or private life saving societies or institutions, may be accepted and worn without restrictions, subject to the limitations imposed by para 0844.

HM the Queen has not given authority for the NATO non-article 5 medal for service with ISAF to be worn with UK uniform as the UK already issues the Operational Service Medal (Afghanistan) for the same operation.

If there is any doubt wether this applies to No5 Dress (as if this was somehow a special form of dress exempt from normal regulations) AP1358 Chap 8 also states:

WEARING OF INSIGNIA AND ACCOUTREMENTS WITH EVENING UNIFORM

Foreign Insignia and Non-Military Medals

0852. The regulations for wearing foreign insignia and non-military medals with evening uniform are the same as for wear with day uniform
(see paras 0818 to 0824 also 0843 and 0844).

The question was also asked in the September Edition of Soldier Magazine:

IS THIS PERMISSABLE [stet] TO WEAR

DURING service in Afghanistan individuals receive both the Operational Service Medal (OSM) and a Non-Article 5 Isaf [stet] medal. While the OSM can be worn on Service dress, the second award cannot. All troops understand and accept this.

Confusion arises when some individuals wear the Non-Article 5 medal on their mess dress. Is this permissible?

Irrelevant of the answer it would be beneficial for all readers to know in order that they can ensure they display only those medals they are entitled to wear. – Name and address supplied.

The official response was:

Lt Col (Retd) Peter Lockyer, Medal Office, writes: The Non-Article 5 Isaf medal is a commemorative keepsake. It is not to be worn either on Service dress or mess kit.

Slightly off topic - please humour me. The Soldier Letters include lots refering to recognition of repeated tours. Many queery why Balkans tours and Gulf Medal (GRANBY) do not count towards the ACSM. These a rebuffed (apparently the Service Chiefs have rejected the applicability of Balkans tours towards the ACSM twice before); however, recent a response indicates that the qualifying time for the ACSM (1080 days (or 6 x 6-month tours of Afghanistan)) may be being reviewed:

Brig Mike Griffiths, DPS(A), responds: Medal policy is approved at the very highest level.

The MoD’s medal office merely enacts the policy of the three Services and has nothing to do with the final decision.

Balkan tours were considered by the Chiefs of Staff in 2000 and again in 2004 and on both occasions the decision was that this service would not count towards the ACSM.

As has been stated on many occasions in Soldier, there were six medals issued for service in the Balkans with several also accumulating numerals to reflect repeat service.

Service in the region has been recognised, just not with the ACSM.

Finally, rather than looking backwards, spare a thought for those who have joined the British Army more recently.

Many of today’s soldiers can look forward to repeat tours in southern Afghanistan with the prospect of earning a single Operational Service Medal until they have accumulated 1,080 days towards their ACSM.

I would suggest that it is here where we should look (and the chain of command is doing so) to ensure repeat service is appropriately recognised.

The JS Regulations are contained in JSP 761 - Tri-Service Regulations for Military Honours and Awards; however, I cannot find a copy on the wonderful WWW. It is mentioned in the Airspace section fo the RAF Website but without a link to the document. Those of you with access to the MOD intranet should be able to find a copy.

 

[Climebear]

You can wear two medals for the same campaign, During the Koren war british soldiers were awarded a service medal from the queen and a UN medal because it was a UN mission and troops were allowed to wear both.

Partly correct.
The Korean War was an exception to the rule. Although there have also been a couple of other exceptions. The general rule is that two medals for the same campaigne cannot be worn on uniform.

This, too, has been raised in Soldier:

Herrick heroes deserve double acclaim

IT STRIKES me as odd that personnel who serve in Afghanistan and are awarded the Operational Service Medal (OSM) and the Nato Isaf medal are only allowed to wear the former. The latter is considered as a keepsake, on the grounds that a British campaign medal has been issued for the theatre.
During the Korean War eligible troops were awarded a campaign medal and the UN Korea Medal, and personnel were given permission to wear both. With that in mind, can anyone explain the logic being applied to the Afghan theatre?

I often see Op Herrick being referred to as the toughest campaign the Army has fought since Korea.

If that is the case then surely our boys and girls deserve to wear two gongs. No one could dispute that they have earned the right to do so.
There are a few other examples of double decorations being awarded for the same operation and of their recipients being granted permission to wear both.

I believe a number of personnel serving in Malaysia during the transition from the 1918 General Service Medal (GSM) to the 1962 GSM received, and were allowed to wear, both campaign medals.

More recently, personnel who served in Bosnia during the switch from a UN to a Nato-led mission were given two medals and were again allowed to display both on their uniforms.

Surely the intensity of the campaign in Afghanistan provides reasonable justification for a double award. After all, is this not the “war of our generation”, just as Korea was to those fighting in the 1950s? – Name and address supplied.

Lt Col (Retd) Peter Lockyer, Medal Office, responds: Admittedly these are examples of double decorations.

Korea was as a result of the UN being a fledgling organisation with no history or precedence of issuing medals. Consequently, the UK chose to recognise the conflict and authorised a medal. The UN medal was unexpected.

Malaya is different. It is most unlikely that a person would receive two medals for the same campaign, even with a change of monarchs. However, it is possible that a GSM 1918 with clasp Malaya was awarded for service prior to July 1960, and then later the same recipient earned the GSM Malay Peninsular for service between August 1964 and June 1965.

The rationale was somewhat stretched in the Balkans when the UN mandate was handed over to Nato. At the time it was considered to be two separate campaigns.

For Afghanistan the OSM was instituted to recognise the service of our soldiers. Thereby, as opposed to an unnamed Nato medal, the decoration issued is silver and engraved with the service details.

This award has the added bonus of automatically allowing time to be accrued towards the Accumulated Campaign Service Medal.