On the subject of pay...

[Fablon biff chit]

How about performance related pay? We all know some fat lazy lard arse in the section who you want nothing to do with, they still get their pay raise - is that fair? What about those downgraded? What about if you don't do X days OOA on a 3 year period? What about linking pay with the number of pints necked in the NAAFI?

Well, perhaps not the last one...

But what do you think? Comments please

 

[The Helpful Stacker]

Isn't our pay is performance related now days?

I thought that if you got below a certain level on your F6000 that under Pay2000 you can have your incremental increase delayed for a year.

As for your bit about paying people less if downgraded we were talking about this in the tea bar the other day. Some font of knowledge said that the reason PMA can't take 'X Factor' off those who are downgraded is that it is an embedded part of our pay scale, but I was always under the impression that 'X Factor' was a percentage based addition to our rates of pay (set on comparable trades in the civilian sector) to account for the rigours of service life. So surly if its percentage based you can just take that percentage of pay off twisted socks?

Of course the other reason they probably won't ever stop the 'X Factor' for sick notes is that they (the MoD) are worried about any legal backlash, an ever present problem in the modern Armed Forces. Of course if you had been injured by service for the crown but were still able to carry out MOB functions then you'd be quite right to sue if such a measure were brought in, we sign up under a set terms of service, the MoD should not be able to change those terms of service without our consent.

 

[Who? Me?]

How about performance related pay? We all know some fat lazy lard arse in the section who you want nothing to do with, they still get their pay raise - is that fair? What about those downgraded? What about if you don't do X days OOA on a 3 year period? What about linking pay with the number of pints necked in the NAAFI?

Well, perhaps not the last one...

But what do you think? Comments please

1. Fat lazy - Agree but apart from a good beating nothing can be done.
2. Downgraded - Totally agree, their increments should be stopped until fit to serve again.
3. OOA Days - Bit unfair on those trades that don't have that many OOA slots.
4. Pints Downed - Disagree, but only 'cause I'm a lightweight.

Those who fail the fitness test should also have their yearly increment held back until they can pass the test.

 

[A CLING NERD SHRON]

If you do a certain number of days OOA you get a higher rate LSSA and a bonus. Can't remeber the figures right now.

"3. OOA Days - Bit unfair on those trades that don't have that many OOA slots."

So those who do go OOA regularly should not get the extra LSSA and bonus?

 

[Fablon biff chit]

If you do a certain number of days OOA you get a higher rate LSSA and a bonus. Can't remeber the figures right now.

"3. OOA Days - Bit unfair on those trades that don't have that many OOA slots."

So those who do go OOA regularly should not get the extra LSSA and bonus?

300 days gets you £7 a day I think as opposed to £5.

Perhaps some threshold can be introduced for each trade?

 

[A CLING NERD SHRON]

Please expand on your idea Trick. I am intriged as to what you are getting at. I hope you don't mean that just because some trades don't spend much time OOA that they should get the higher rate sooner.

 

[Fablon biff chit]

Well, first off, it's not "my" idea... some workmates mentioned it.

But, it was aimed at individuals not trade groups. I was trying to allude to my idea that some should be paid less, not more, because they are useless, never go OOA etc.

I didn't want to get into the old argument we arent paid enough, I'm happy with what I get, but I'm not happy that useless cheddar heads get paid the same for doing far less!!

 

[A CLING NERD SHRON]

Everybody is entitled to the advertised dialy rate of pay according to their rank and years of service. If you think someone is not pulling their weight then that is a mamgement issue that your Boss should be sorting out. If your SNCO's are too weak to do something about it then that is just tough on the rest of you I guess.

Why did you mean by "Perhaps some threshold can be introduced for each trade".

I too am happy with my daily rate of pay.

 

[Who? Me?]

Maybe the LSSA system should be re-evaluated slightly to take into account those trades that do deploy more than the rest.

How about 2 different LSSA streams, one for those that deploy more and one for those that don't. ?

Those that deploy more should be given more money and given the higher increments earlier than those that don't, or maybe those who do spend more time away could be given a bigger OWP? If this already happens please disregard this bit.

It does not help that the number of qualifiying days has just increased for each level, but I do feel that the current system is a fair one albeit in a sort of one size fits all.

 

[A CLING NERD SHRON]

Maybe the LSSA system should be re-evaluated slightly to take into account those trades that do deploy more than the rest.

How about 2 different LSSA streams, one for those that deploy more and one for those that don't. ?

Those that deploy more should be given more money and given the higher increments earlier than those that don't, or maybe those who do spend more time away could be given a bigger OWP? If this already happens please disregard this bit.

It does not help that the number of qualifiying days has just increased for each level, but I do feel that the current system is a fair one albeit in a sort of one size fits all.

You have just answered your own questions. When you reach a certain level yor LSSA goes upto a higher level and you get a bonus. You cant differentiate between certain trades as you need to have a bench mark that is fair to everybody. As you say the thresholds have just been increased because many people are now spending longer away from home and it is costing the government more money and you can't expect them to look after us.

 

[Who? Me?]

Yup you're quite right I did.

What about the idea of increase in OWP for those that are away more then? The increase in R&R days in the FI seemed to be welcome by those that received it, but I'm sure more money would've been more welcome.

Obviously in some OOA places an increase in time away is not feasible, but why not give more "talk-time" or something similar to those who are starting to get their own time-share appartments in these lovely locations?

 

[A CLING NERD SHRON]

Ah now you are onto a different tack

Look here:

Operational Welfare Package for Out of Area Locations

Follow-on Phase (1 to 4 months in theatre)

E-mail and Internet
Provision will be made, within the constraints of the theatre/platform (constrained at sea by comms) and the local infrastructure to provide limited e-mail and internet facilities.

BFBS TV and Radio
BFBS TV and radio will be provided as soon as is technically possible.

TVs
TVs will be provided at a ratio of 1 per 30 personnel.

Video Recorders/DVD Players
One video recorder or DVD player will be provided for each TV.

Videos and DVDs
Videos or DVDs will be provided at a ratio of 1 per 50 personnel per month.

Operational Fitness Equipment
Operational fitness equipment will be scaled at 1 pack per 120 personnel. Packs may include running and rowing machines, free weights and team game equipment.

Allowances for Families:

* Service Personnel Stationed in the UK. Families of married personnel stationed in the UK but serving in Theatre for 4 months or more are entitled to 2 extra warrants (or Motor Mileage Allowance (MMA) at the Converted Leave Rate (CLR) in lieu). This is to enable your dependants to visit their parents, parents-in-law or nominated NOK in the UK.
* Return Journeys to the UK. Service personnel stationed in overseas locations will be entitled to return journeys to the UK at public expense, in line with the following detachment lengths:



Then

Operational Welfare Package for Out of Area Locations

Additional Welfare Arrangements for Personnel Deployed for 6 Months or More

If you are deployed for 6 Months or more the following additional concessions are available:

* You family may convert concessionary flights into entitlements to car journeys with MMA at CLR plus the notional cost of an Air Trooping flight.
* You may transfer the balance of any untaken annual leave travel entitlement to your spouse.
* You can carry forward leave entitlements in excess of the existing 15 days maximum - subject to the approval of your Service.
* You are also entitled to a guaranteed period of leave at the end of your tour. Single Service rules apply, but as a guide Army personnel who complete a 6 month detachment will receive 20 working days Post Operational Tour Leave (POTL) over and above their annual leave allowance.

However the measly 20 mins per week could be increased.

 

[Who? Me?]

Give me an hour to read it all, then I'll get back to you.

As you say the 20 minutes is a bit low.

As not one who goes OOA that often I wonder what extra those that do would prefer? More talk-time or anything else?

 

[A CLING NERD SHRON]

The other annoying thing is that you dont get LOA because you get these so called Welfare packages. The US and Australian forces get tax free pay aswell as extra pay for being in a war zone.
But our government wont give us that as they say our pay is higher than those forces mentioned.
As for performance related pay as was the original question we do get it as one poster said if you don't come upto scratch then you do't go up another level in pay 2000. Do you know of any boss who will not let you advance?

 

[Who? Me?]

The problem with not advancing might come down to differing interpretations of what defines "up to the grade".

I think it's safe to say that you would be hard pushed to find someone who has had an increment withheld.

 

[izitme]

Performance Relate Pay

Performance Relate Pay

a good idea but wouldn't it put Ops Officers below the national minium wage!

 

[Stax]

a good idea but wouldn't it put Ops Officers below the national minium wage!

Yes but Opz could make a fortune in other ways! Oops, I did it again! Naughty Naughty

 

[Sherriff]

performance related pay!!!! Our kinder garden like goverment must think the performance of all three services is poor. Its time the fat cats actually take a good look at just what we are all doing and pay us accordingly!!!!!!!!! Its been far too long since our last decent pay rise.DT_Xtremez_28:

 

[Almost_done]

Pay

Pay

performance related pay!!!! Our kinder garden like goverment must think the performance of all three services is poor. Its time the fat cats actually take a good look at just what we are all doing and pay us accordingly!!!!!!!!! Its been far too long since our last decent pay rise.DT_Xtremez_28:

I agree and so do we all deserve a more generous than usual pay rise, however it is unlikely that we will recive anything apart from the usual 2% due to Mr Browns comments to the Armed Forces Pay Review Body, "I'd be surprised to hear you recommending more than 2%.". Now we know the review body is supposedly neutral in this, however he is Premier Blairs hatchet man and Heir apparent so....................draw your own conclusions.DT_Xtremez_08:

 

[TDJ]

Performance related pay, in its truest sense (not the namby pamby Pay 2000 option) will likely be introduced when we switch to performance related work contracts.

Such an idea is not too far round the corner. Basically if you perform at work then you get better pay and a longer contract (reviewed short term and not long term). You don't perform you loose pay and wopn't get signed on. Working contracts (9+6, 15, 22, LOS 30 etc) will be scrapped in favour of a short term work contract, nominal 4-5 years, then a career review. Those performing at the very top will get a longer signing on period than those performing at a lesser standard. Pay will be graduated to reflect performance, with an additional bonus for more quals etc