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True Blue Jack
Warrant Officer
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Speaking of which, when did you join the PVR club? Not too long ago you were saying how much you still loved the job.
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Still do mate, I love being an Armourer, but there's no future in it. Several things have happened recently (which I won't discuss on here) that have made me re-appraise my career and personal aspirations.
When is the big day ? I could always see this happening, you had far to much savvy for a SAC plummer.
Goodluck old chum.
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Plenty of time yet mate, October 2009, which gives me time to finish off my degree and tie up a few loose ends.
Good luck to anyone staying, I've always thought one of the best parts of my job was the people I work with.
True Blue Jack
Warrant Officer
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Sorry to hear it but I wish you well.
Anyway, to answer your question: there are lies, damned lies and statistics. How do you define 'voluntary outflow'? Presumably they are talking PVR/notice, which is not the whole picture. What about those offered further service who turn it down?
The important figure is the total outflow. We are losing about 10% of our trained strength every year for all reasons, or to put it another way we are completely changing our 'workforce' over 10 years. How long does it take for a spotty 18 year old to become a fully-fledged and Q'd SAC(T)? I don't care what the stats say, we can't sustain our losses either at the SNCO "My pension is safe, I'm off" level or at the SAC "I'm not sticking around to get pension-trapped" level.
EDIT: I've just found this in the notes section:
So they're making it all up anyway.
DT_Xtremez_25:
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I concur TBJ, when will the idiots in charge realise they cannot rationalise manpower in the armed forces by simply producing a poxy graph? What about the SNCO with 30 years experience? What about the keen young thruster SACs that leave due to the treatment and contempt they receive at the hands of the system? Across ALL TRADES there has to be a PVR problem, otherwise, why the massive retention bonuses and offers of further service all of a sudden?
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Shame there are no figures by rank, I wonder how much the group of Air Ranks have increased in recent years? If we carry on we'll have more Air Commodores than Sergeants!
N
NotAnIDOYet
Guest
"There are lies, damned lies and statistics"
Can't remember who said that but it appears to be the truth. AMP was at my unit the other day and denies a PVR spike at the moment. My current place of work has had about a 15% PVR rate for SACs in the past 6 months - hmmm, no spike there then sir!
TBJ you are correct about the signing on thing for SNCOs, I haven't taken the option and neither have quite a few of my generation in my trade. Personaly I think the new pension scheme has a lot to do with that and that most of us just want to take the money and run after 22.
FRIs are good but are they really attacking the problem? The trades being offered them at the moment suffer from horrendous OOA turnaround times and a severe lack of stability.
Another problem, possibly affecting recruiting, is the TB legacy education system where everybody should expect to get a degree in something. Now without being funny, can the RAF Regt really recruit from this environment. There will always be the "thick as mince" element in society but, all joking aside, the average gunner is a cut above the average infantryman in intelect. Getting them through the door is the first issue, FRIs can keep them.
Are we now in a situation where we career manage like the Army, service beyond 22 years by exception? Yes this would lead to quicker promotion but where would all the experience go?
Can't remember who said that but it appears to be the truth. AMP was at my unit the other day and denies a PVR spike at the moment. My current place of work has had about a 15% PVR rate for SACs in the past 6 months - hmmm, no spike there then sir!
TBJ you are correct about the signing on thing for SNCOs, I haven't taken the option and neither have quite a few of my generation in my trade. Personaly I think the new pension scheme has a lot to do with that and that most of us just want to take the money and run after 22.
FRIs are good but are they really attacking the problem? The trades being offered them at the moment suffer from horrendous OOA turnaround times and a severe lack of stability.
Another problem, possibly affecting recruiting, is the TB legacy education system where everybody should expect to get a degree in something. Now without being funny, can the RAF Regt really recruit from this environment. There will always be the "thick as mince" element in society but, all joking aside, the average gunner is a cut above the average infantryman in intelect. Getting them through the door is the first issue, FRIs can keep them.
Are we now in a situation where we career manage like the Army, service beyond 22 years by exception? Yes this would lead to quicker promotion but where would all the experience go?
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No doubt there are some places that are suffering higher PVR rates than others. Although people PVR for various reasons, ultimately the number of PVRs on a section reflects on the management in that section, and how they treat their workforce.
I am in a section where so far we have had 3 PVRs in 2008 out of a workforce of approx 180. Last year there were 8 submitted. Stats could say that as we are 33% of the way through the year, we are on target for 9 PVRs, which is a 12.5% increase on last year's figure. Stats could also say that our PVR rate is low compared to others.
I think a lot of PVRs could be avoided by the management if they actually bother to listen to the troops, instead of being the 2nd click in the "5 clicks to freedom" chain that is a JPA PVR. Fortunately we have a Boss that actively seeks feedback from the youngest AMM upwards, which I reckon keeps our lot happier than some.
I am in a section where so far we have had 3 PVRs in 2008 out of a workforce of approx 180. Last year there were 8 submitted. Stats could say that as we are 33% of the way through the year, we are on target for 9 PVRs, which is a 12.5% increase on last year's figure. Stats could also say that our PVR rate is low compared to others.
I think a lot of PVRs could be avoided by the management if they actually bother to listen to the troops, instead of being the 2nd click in the "5 clicks to freedom" chain that is a JPA PVR. Fortunately we have a Boss that actively seeks feedback from the youngest AMM upwards, which I reckon keeps our lot happier than some.
That, my friend, is one helluva sweeping statement. I for one, filter out a lot of sh1te for the people I work with to ensure that they don't have to even think about the latest corporate nonsense initiatives etc. Whilst day to day management has a role to play, the crap coming from the airships down is the real problem. Also, having to continually fight fires with reference to no spares, insufficient manpower, over commitment etc is the real issue and most if not all of my blokes/blokesses know this. Everyone has a final straw and that is why they walk. Personally, I am going to be looking for another job when I get back from the desert in November and I've still got 7 years to run on the new pension scheme!
DT_Xtremez_09:
O
OldEddie
Guest
Close but no banana: try the same position about 80 years earlier.
M
monobrow
Guest
Try working in a place that has over 40% of it's manpower actively looking at an exchange / posting / PVR.
And this snippet here...
And this snippet here...
Couldn't have said it better.
J
(JR)
Guest
Nice stats...
If the number of armed forces goes down.
And the rate of PVR's remain the same
But the total trained remain the same, we all get trained at the start of career.
No wonder that the charts show straight horizontal lines.
Its nice when you can make the stats work even though the actual percentage of PVR's to military community have increased?
Just another document to reflect that there is not a problem within the forces, or is there?DT_Xtremez_34:
If the number of armed forces goes down.
And the rate of PVR's remain the same
But the total trained remain the same, we all get trained at the start of career.
No wonder that the charts show straight horizontal lines.
Its nice when you can make the stats work even though the actual percentage of PVR's to military community have increased?
Just another document to reflect that there is not a problem within the forces, or is there?
DT_Xtremez_34: mad_collie
The Other Mods Made Me Do It
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There's no problem in our trade JR, you should know that.Nice stats...
If the number of armed forces goes down.
And the rate of PVR's remain the same
But the total trained remain the same, we all get trained at the start of career.
No wonder that the charts show straight horizontal lines.
Its nice when you can make the stats work even though the actual percentage of PVR's to military community have increased?
Just another document to reflect that there is not a problem within the forces, or is there?
DT_Xtremez_42:
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It's Labours new motto: (I've said this before...)
"There are no American Tanks In Baghdad!"
DT_Xtremez_42:::DT_Xtremez_14:DT_Xtremez_14:
"There are no American Tanks In Baghdad!"
DT_Xtremez_42:::DT_Xtremez_14:DT_Xtremez_14:
J
(JR)
Guest
I know there is nothing wrong with the trade, we get told continually how well we are doing, but.................................its been the same line for over 10 years, but why is it that at one time you had the new lad pushing a broom and get familiar qith how we work, (with some pranks to make him feel part of the team) to where we now place them straight onto shift and worry about training later.