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P-8 About to be Ordered

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Not a surprise as such but its getting real now. First time we will own a variant of the 737...How many techies and pilots will see the opportunities here to get qualified on a type that pretty much every airline in the world has one of?


Britain will order the first of a new generation of spy planes from Boeing in the next few months as it beefs up its maritime surveillance capabilities.

Defence Secretary Michael Fallon said the UK will sign the contract for the first of nine P-8 Poseidon jets this summer in the start of a defence deal worth an estimated £2bn.
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...begin-orders-of-nimrod-replacement-spyplanes/
 
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What a massive cluster**** this has been.

Build an modern maritime patrol aircraft, scrap it because you allegedly can't afford it, ensure that all the airframes are destroyed in full view of the many thousands of people who slaved day and night to make the impossible a reality, get a platform in its current configuration to undertake the role, decide that it can't do it because that platform is widely committed elsewhere, then in a complete snub to British industry buy an aircraft that isn't configured with British systems, isn't in itself a particularly good platform, and nails the UK's flag to the "we don't care about our home grown industry, we'll buy American because its cool"...

And breathe......
 
Anyone else notice how the driver is becoming less and less important in the who Air Power prosecution thing?

"just fly up and down in a racetrck for 8 hours, there's a good chap - and if you go for a piss, don't touch anything back there"
 
Kryten said:
What a massive cluster**** this has been.

Build an modern maritime patrol aircraft, scrap it because you allegedly can't afford it, ensure that all the airframes are destroyed in full view of the many thousands of people who slaved day and night to make the impossible a reality, get a platform in its current configuration to undertake the role, decide that it can't do it because that platform is widely committed elsewhere, then in a complete snub to British industry buy an aircraft that isn't configured with British systems, isn't in itself a particularly good platform, and nails the UK's flag to the "we don't care about our home grown industry, we'll buy American because its cool"...

And breathe......
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The Nimrod MR4 mission system was Boeing, the radar was Thales(albeit mainly UK based), the sim was Thales, the ESM was Israeli, the Acoustics was Canadian and the MAD sensor was also foreign if my memory serves me so we were already buying from international companies. Of course one of the big challenges that I believe was largely overcome on the MRA4 was the fusion of the sensors....on the Boeing mission system. I'm guessing there is lineage to the P8 mission system so we're likely paying for that development twice when we buy the P8.
 
Mag2grid said:
isnt there already a glut of former Nimrod Jockies kicking their heels around the world,waiting to be recalled to Scotland?
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Not many...most are nuts deep in the airlines or quietly swamping themselves whilst staring out the care home window.

I know one pilot whose been given the nod and he's got no maritime background although I think he'll do very well in that environment.

No MPA can be a thoroughbred sub hunter without MAD...and I believe the P8 does not have it.
 
As for the 737 Variant thing for engineers to get type ratings?....This is not likely in EASA-Land.

The P8 is not built as a variant of a 737, it doesn't even start its build as a 737 - it's built from scratch as a P8.

The fuselage structure, landing gear and probably wing structures are almost entirely different from the 737NG. The Windows, aerials and the variety of hard points and additional doors and panels are testament to that. The ECS is likely to be extremely different as is the electrical generation and power distribution. The engines, even though called CFM56, will be for, and from, military stock (and probably issued without an EASA Form 1/FAA 8130-3).

So, although this looks similar to a 737, it's a P8 - and not permissible as "experience" towards a civil 737NG rating, in the same way as working on the 'new' Puma Mk2 is not acceptable as experience for a Super Puma.

On the other hand, working on a C-17 or an A400....
 
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I don't see any details on P8 participation at RIAT or Farnborough this year. which is a bit odd given supposed announcement of purchases shortly. Mr Fallons recent speech at the Shangri la conference talked about Maritime Security and the SDSR capability enhancements. "That’s why our SDSR gives us bigger defence with greater capability, a larger Land Division, two carriers sailing these seas in the 2020s, fifth generation F35s, more Typhoons in service, cutting edge unmanned air vehicles and our nuclear deterrent." Did I miss something?
 
Vim_Fuego said:
No MPA can be a thoroughbred sub hunter without MAD...and I believe the P8 does not have it.
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Mod strike 1 for the P8? Despite having a better than fairly good knowledge of all stuff techie I have a fairly basic question. The Nimrod had a MAD sensor fitted at the rear of the fuselage. Was this a fixed sensor or was it trailed out in a drogue of some sort when doing a MAD run?
 
Past Engineering said:
It was fixed within the tail boom, no trailing drogue format.
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Thanks for that. I was thinking that if they modded the P8 for MAD it could probably be done cheap and quick with a the type of drogue arrangement deployed on ASW helicopters
 
They're already capable of carrying MAD- the version that the Indians have ordered comes equipped with a MAD boom.

There was (is) an issue with weight/C of G, and so the MAD boom was one of the first things that was cut from the design for the USN aircraft. However, another reason is that the aircraft are designed to be operated differently to the way that Nimrod was- i.e. mainly from medium altitude. At that height, the MAD would be ineffective anyway. It also means we can't fit Stingray without some sort of mid-alt delivery system, so we will probably have to buy American torpedoes and sonobuoys too. Not sure about UK spec air-droppable life rafts, but I expect that's the same (plus certification would be expensive and complicated).

The reason for the doctrinal change is because the 737, being a civvy airliner, was not designed to tootle about at low level over the sea, so with the P-8 they've had to completely change the way they do things. The Japanese offering, the Kawasaki P-1 was purpose built, so I expect (but don't 'know') that it doesn't suffer the same limitations.
 
Any C of G problems caused by the addition of a tailbourne MAD could easily be counteracted by installing an extra crate of pies just behind the cockpit bulkhead.
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....or the reinstallation of the Navigator branch, though it sort of amounts to the same thing.
 
When you're in a MAD hunting pattern, the airframe really gets thrown about.
This fact really precludes any sort of trailing MAD system.
 
Ex-Bay said:
Forgive my ignorance please, but why Boeing?
Can't Airbus do something ?
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I could offer a number of reasons...Its becoming a proven system, The RAF has an increasing stock of Boeing products with the Sentry, Air Seeker and Chinook (have I missed any?) and we have had a bunch of ex-Nimrod aircrew flying on it pretty much from 2010 as 'seedcorn' who now rate it and have the experience to train others.

I don't know too much about it but I don't think its a thoroughbred sub hunter like Nimrod or the Japanese P1....Its a multi-mission aircraft so has the capability to fulfil other surveillance and reconnaissance roles. Not sure if like that but once we get it a bunch of trials and exercises completed against live-targets with British crews it will tell a tale.
 
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