PC Operating System

[Barch]

Background

One day each week I do volunteer work at Learning for Life Enterprise >> Link << a charity that caters for and looks after people from all over Sheffield providing ESOL, training, support, stability and advice.

The vast majority of the ‘customers’ speak very little or no English.

Situation

LFLE has got a suite of around 20 PCs of differing specifications all running Windows XP to either Service Pack 2 or 3.

'Customers' use the PCs to check emails, keep in touch with family & friends, surf t’interweb and carry out online English Language testing and quizzes.

These PCs are now struggling to run due to the lack of support for XP and when something goes wrong the OS is proving very difficult to repair.

The Dream

Install a new Operating System (I’m thinking a version of Linux) that will have two users (Administrator and User).

I want the machines to be as easy to use as possible but as difficult as possible to mess with by the User logon.

On top of the OS I want to install a …

web browser – ???

video player – ???

photo viewer (not editor) – ???

and

office suite – ???

Question

Any tips and tricks that the Goater Experts out there can share?

 

[Tedlooney]

I have an elderly laptop and a netbook on which I've installed Ubuntu. It comes with Chromium web browser, Libre Office, Gimp for image manipulation, VLC Media Player and Thunderbird mail client. I put Clam AV anti-virus on too. It's easy to install from a bootable data stick. Admittedly I don't use the machines much but it seems easy to maintain. Maybe try it one machine and see how it goes. By the way, you can create additional accounts on each machine.

 

[ScoobTech]

As above get a suitable linux, some of them do have closer to windows look to them , then hunt round for free programs that do what you need. I've had a look at mint, open SUSE, Ubuntu, they are all pretty much the same. AV is a must as Linux is still susceptible to viruses. Nearly all of the different flavours of Linux will allow you to run of the DVD, USB stick so you don't even have to install it to try.

 

[Entropy]

Another +1 for Ubuntu. Its relatively easy to download and install, regular updates, not very susceptible to malware viruses etc. Lots of free stuff to use alongside it.

Also you said that the machines you have are running XP so I assume they are relatively low spec hardware wise. I'm running a 2008 laptop on the latest version, 16.04, without any issues so Ubuntu would suit the kit you have due to its low demand on hardware.

 

[Tedlooney]

Hi Barch, did you give Ubuntu a try? Today I fired up my really cr@ppy HP Pavilion laptop which, although it has a quad core processor and a decent amount of RAM was so slow it was a real pain to use and was soon replaced by a much better piece of kit. Anyhow, I decided to install Ubuntu on it but the useless piece of junk even struggled with that. I then tried Xubuntu which is a cut down version that's easier on the hardware and it ran miles better. So if you have an old machine that struggles with Ubuntu maybe try Xubuntu. There's loads of information on the internet on how to configure it to get the best out of it.

 

[Barch]

Hi Barch, did you give Ubuntu a try? Today I fired up my really cr@ppy HP Pavilion laptop which, although it has a quad core processor and a decent amount of RAM was so slow it was a real pain to use and was soon replaced by a much better piece of kit. Anyhow, I decided to install Ubuntu on it but the useless piece of junk even struggled with that. I then tried Xubuntu which is a cut down version that's easier on the hardware and it ran miles better. So if you have an old machine that struggles with Ubuntu maybe try Xubuntu. There's loads of information on the internet on how to configure it to get the best out of it.

Hi Ted

I actually installed Lubuntu on a couple of machines and they flew but the management said they had to be Windows based.

XP went back on and they don't get used because they are too slow.

They don't understand that webpages etc are written to be used on up to date hardware, it is even nigh on impossible to find up to date AV that will run on XP nowadays but they don't see that as a problem.

I have given up with them now, it got to the point that I was going in and re-installing XP on ancient hardware that cannot even display the BBC home page.

This is an email I sent on the 19 August 2016

Hiya Hayley

I tried to find the Windows XP & Office discs yesterday to sort out the PC that wouldn’t work but nobody knew where it (they) are.

The problem with the PCs is that they are not powerful enough to run a Windows operating system that is later than XP.

To that end Windows XP has also become a problem itself because hardware and software manufacturers including Microsoft do not support the operating system, so drivers for hardware are becoming less and less available and finding an anti-virus that will support XP and but it will run on such old low powered machines is proving to be nigh on impossible.

If you can make the XP and Office Discs available I can format a machine and reload XP and Office and have the two logons, the PC would need to have proper restrictions on the User logon to stop people loading them up with their personal choice of Browser & Music players etc. (This is also a major problem – access restrictions in Windows XP are controlled by a Server or on individual machines running XP Professional only)

Unrestricted access on the current setup has allowed software installations that have in many occurrences corrupted Windows XP.

I would advise that the Users / Students do not have write to disc (save) privileges for two reasons …

1. Users / Students would need to use the same machine each time.
2. There is plenty of cloud storage available free of charge allowing access to files from any internet connected computer anywhere in the world.

With regards to Office, which applications are actually needed?

If a user has a Google Account they can use the online Google Documents apps that include a Word Processor, Spread Sheet and Presentation suite and then save to their own cloud based Google Drive. Everything is done online without the need to install an Office application onto the local machines. This would help prevent clutter and help maintain what little speed the PCs have.

I can understand the logic of teaching IT courses on Microsoft based machines for standardisation with industry but with XP now being all but dead and buried by industry anything based on it will be effectively out of date (XP has actually been superseded by five Microsoft Operating Systems since its introduction in 2001.)

Using Moore’s Law as a guestimate (computers double in power every couple of years or so) an industry standard PC bought for an office environment today is probably about ten to fifteen times more powerful than the machines in the LFLE Internet Café but software and websites are designed today to be run on tomorrow’s industry standard machines and the LFLE machines are lagging further and further behind.

The version of Linux (Lubuntu) that I installed yesterday, looks like widows, behaves like Windows and is designed to run on old low spec machines but even with that installed some things like graphic intensive web pages and videos are still slow to load, this is down to the hardware specification of the actual computers. As an example, an office spec £300 Windows 10 PC has around 30 times the graphic processing power of the machine I installed Lubuntu on yesterday.

The ideal answer is to have high spec Windows 10 Pro machines running autonomously so that network corruption cannot happen but as with all ideologies that would cost big money unless a generous sponsor can be found.

To be honest with the current machines there are a few choices …

1. Re-install XP on all machines and carry on struggling.
2. Install Lubuntu and get a bit more life from the machines.
3. Using parts from the machines in storage build the highest spec machines possible then install an operating system and try to extend the machines lives as much as possible.
4. I’m off to buy a Lottery ticket now so here is hoping.

Mike

Their expert opinion was to go out and purchase 20 Windows 10 licences.

If they want my knowledge at my expense they should accept it. If they pay for my knowledge they can have what they want.

 

[Tedlooney]

Wow, what a bunch of d1cks! Have they got 20 machines capable of running Win10? Looks like you had a good plan, shame it was fcuked up by poor management, typical though!

 

[SAXAVORDIAN]

How about Windows 7 as halfway house. Like alot of windows updates they can be ram and hard drive hungry. I suspect the reason for not going for linux is knowledge would be at the implementer hand like yourself. This would have an issue when yourself not being their fully when something goes wrong. WindowXP can have any working knowledge being useful passed on to a outsider. Window 7 I would call halfway house if the computer can handle this software.

 

[Barch]

How about Windows 7 as halfway house. Like alot of windows updates they can be ram and hard drive hungry. I suspect the reason for not going for linux is knowledge would be at the implementer hand like yourself. This would have an issue when yourself not being their fully when something goes wrong. WindowXP can have any working knowledge being useful passed on to a outsider. Window 7 I would call halfway house if the computer can handle this software.

The hardware will not run Windows 7.

The very best spec machine has only got 32MB of video RAM (shared from 1GB of system RAM, most machines have 512MB of system RAM shared with graphics).

The major problem is the management refuse to accept the fact that things move on and that hardware goes out of date and functionality.

Trust me, I have tried to explain, but things don't fit their agenda so it will not happen.

 

[gray]

As a charity, could they think about trying to upgrade their hardware ?

http://www.computersforcharities.org/

 

[Barch]

As a charity, could they think about trying to upgrade their hardware ?

http://www.computersforcharities.org/

Have tried that route as well mate.

They don't understand that computers go out of date therefore the hardware they have is good enough according to them.

They were invited to a sporting event last month to do a bit of networking with one company rep wanting to donate some very good spec machines that are being replaced - they didn't turn up !!

 

[Tedlooney]

How about Windows 7 as halfway house. Like alot of windows updates they can be ram and hard drive hungry. I suspect the reason for not going for linux is knowledge would be at the implementer hand like yourself. This would have an issue when yourself not being their fully when something goes wrong. WindowXP can have any working knowledge being useful passed on to a outsider. Window 7 I would call halfway house if the computer can handle this software.

Most people only think they know about Windows, in reality most of them know d1ck about it. Barch, have you tried approaching companies, universities etc directly?

 

[Barch]

Most people only think they know about Windows, in reality most of them know d1ck about it. Barch, have you tried approaching companies, universities etc directly?

Ted,

they have a paid 'networker / fund seeker', she has been given lots of contacts but tbh from what I have seen she only seems to be interested in donated £s.

I have given up with them.