POL Question

[metimmee]

A quick Q for those that know about these things. Am I correct in thinking that a POL section is responsible for controlling all of the POL entering a unit? A POL section would presumably not want a section purchasing their own POL directly without involving the POL section? Which leads me to the nub of the query; if a section has a requirement for some POL, has the reference details, but the POL section have not historically stocked said item, who is responsible for purchasing it? I work at a PT and my loggies tell me that they aren't allowed to purchase POL and that the POL section needs to go via the POL PT (or whatever it is called)..in the meantime the front line go without.

 

[Realist78]

A quick Q for those that know about these things. Am I correct in thinking that a POL section is responsible for controlling all of the POL entering a unit? A POL section would presumably not want a section purchasing their own POL directly without involving the POL section? Which leads me to the nub of the query; if a section has a requirement for some POL, has the reference details, but the POL section have not historically stocked said item, who is responsible for purchasing it? I work at a PT and my loggies tell me that they aren't allowed to purchase POL and that the POL section needs to go via the POL PT (or whatever it is called)..in the meantime the front line go without.

If the frontline have identified a need (maybe urgently) and POL don't stock it, the eng management of the Sqn would just go and LPO it I would have thought.

 

[snowball1]

You have to ask why a user suddenly wants a certain type of POL, and then it needs PT approval for use on the item.

 

[metimmee]

You have to ask why a user suddenly wants a certain type of POL, and then it needs PT approval for use on the item.

The reason for never using it before is easily explained, although I wont go into it here; no need for approval since its in the Aircraft Document Set. The POL section are simply refusing to help the squadron since they have never seen it before. Its not particularly nasty and is in widespread use in the civil sector.

 

[Weebl]

You have to ask why a user suddenly wants a certain type of POL, and then it needs PT approval for use on the item.

I have seen a Friday afternoon UTI arrive on the Sqn fresh from the PT, and requiring the use of both components and F&L that we don't have. Not particularly unusual?

As for the F&L section that won't supply something because they have not before, I take it that work arounds are being used to carry out the job in the meantime? Easy then, somebody grow a pair, go D state then get OC F&L to explain to the staish why none of his aircraft are flying.

 

[Joseph]

The reason for a PT involvement will be the need to issue to an aircraft without their knowledge is a flight safety concern. It is common sense and also applies to alternatives to those approved by the ac PT. It is really important that an authority for the alternative is gained, but if it were from a F&L section I work in I would be more than happy to explain to OC F&L the need for a local purchase. Even though this is 2011, the basics that our predecessors introduced 40 years ago + are really valid today. There will be difficult suppliers like there are (very) difficult techies. We try to get rid of that attitude we are sometimes marked with, 'it's ours, not yours'. If the need is there, the PT of the kit should explain why there hasn't been sufficient procurement. If they are clear on an alternative, there should be no problem. The basics (for non suppliers) is...if you have a sound authority, then you can have whatever you want.

 

[metimmee]

I have seen a Friday afternoon UTI arrive on the Sqn fresh from the PT, and requiring the use of both components and F&L that we don't have. Not particularly unusual?

As for the F&L section that won't supply something because they have not before, I take it that work arounds are being used to carry out the job in the meantime? Easy then, somebody grow a pair, go D state then get OC F&L to explain to the staish why none of his aircraft are flying.

My sentiments exactly. We have gone as far as finding them a supplier and supplied them with a quote. Bar short circuiting the approved routes, I don't see how we can do anymore.

 

[RAF Bird]

My sentiments exactly. We have gone as far as finding them a supplier and supplied them with a quote. Bar short circuiting the approved routes, I don't see how we can do anymore.

Are they actually refusing to LPO it? If you are only purchasing what you require it wont even have to be held in POL so their only concern should be that it is auth'd for use on the A/C. I'm sure if it's thats urgent and your SEngO is aware one phone call to OC LSS should move the situation forward. I'm surprised F&L are actually refusing to help you out.... sure you haven't got your wires crossed?

 

[sexual preference]

The job of LPO'ing the new POL does not sit with F&L, it is the responsibility of the Sqn to do that via the LPO clerk. While the POL product may be comercially available only products that meet stringent MOD tests are allowed to be used (especially on a/c). If this is a fleet wide issue then authority for using the product will had to be sort from the relevant PT and Eng authorities, then a permenant item can be sourced and codified for everyones use. If the SEngO is prepared to sign the work off in the mean time then crack on with LPO'ing the product. But no where in this can I see that this is an F&L problem.

 

[metimmee]

Thanks, I mistakenly thought that all POL demands had to go via F&L in order to allow control of what substances are on a unit. Like I said, the substance is in the Aircraft Document Set and therefore is already authorised. All they need to do is LPO it and ensure they supply the ref...all this can be done locally without the PT, so no hand-holding required.

RAFBird it really is as easy as I present it....sometimes the squadrons just wont help themselves!

 

[sexual preference]

You are correct in thinking that demands will go to F&L, however this is not a demand but an LPO. You will be the only Section with the item so there is no need for batch control via F&L, your own 'in use' locker will surfice. As stated if more needs to be precured then the PT should source the product and codeify the item so it can be demanded by anyone using a Section Ref and batch control. I'm not an F&L expert and I'm willing to be corrected but I believe this is what should happen. Your Sqn will need to LPO it as they are using the product and it will come off the Sqn's budget.

 

[Norman the Storeman]

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Make sure the commercial supplier provides you with a safety data sheet or material data sheet (MDS) in civvy speak. This will aid the Sqn F&L custodian to raise his COSHH assessment and not get pinged on his next QA audit.

I'm TG18 and running a TBFI and we needed hydraulic oil to run an air driven bund bump so the lads wouldn't have to patay pump water out of 4 bunds every day (aren't I nice?). No service supplied item, BFUPT gave us the oil specs and I LPO'd 5 litres...bish, bash, bosh, job done...no dramas!

Next please?

BTW. We say F&L now...not POL. I put a case forward for it to be changed to Fuels, Lubricants ANd Gas Equipment...FLANGE for short. Never got approved though.

 

[RAF Vale]

I think you will also find they once tried to rename POL to Fuels Lubricant & Associated Product’s Having FLAP’s over your section door would not look good, but I have met many an OC Supply that it would apply to.

 

[J647]

Ulimately it is the role of the Aircraft PT to give airworthiness clearance. to enable them to do this they procure and set up contracts for things needed by that platform to ensure ongoing airworthiness. If the item you want is not already in the system then contact the PT and find out if an alternative is in the system. Also you might want to check HSIS as just because your POL says its never been demanded does not mean it not in the system. You may even want to speak to Defence Fuels Group and ask them if there is a contract for the said item.