RAF Pensions to change

[Sospan]

Just a little snippet that I have stumbled across which could be of interest.

http://www.efinancialnews.com/story/2010-06-14/uk-prepares-for-public-sector-pension-reform

Interesting to say the least.


TW

This is also backed up by an official parliamentary document found HERE

Which states:

The Armed Forces Pension Scheme (AFPS 75)

The Armed Forces Pension Scheme is an unfunded, defined benefit, salary-related, contracted-out occupational pension scheme open to most members of the Armed Forces, administered by the Service Personnel and Veterans Agency (SPVA) formerly Armed Forces Personnel Administration Agency (AFPAA) and financed on an annual basis by the Consolidated Fund.
The Scheme is designed to meet the special requirements of Service life. Youth and fitness are important to the Services, and the Scheme provides immediate pension benefits to many of those who leave without completing a full career. The full career pension can be earned relatively early, at age 55, and invaliding and death benefits are available in the event of illness, injury or
The Scheme rules are set out in “Prerogative Instruments” that derive their authority from Her Majesty The Queen and are not subject to approval, annulment or amendment by Parliament. For the Royal Navy and the Royal Marines the Prerogative Instrument is an Order in Council under the Naval and Marine Pay and Pensions Act 1865. For the Army, it is the Army Pension Warrant 1977 and, for the Royal Air Force, the Queen’s Regulations.

 

[Talk Wrench]

This is also backed up by an official parliamentary document found HERE

Good drills Sospan.

Information is a resource that many are unaware of!

TW

 

[needsabiggerfuse]

Many thanks Sospan. Quote from Mrs 'Fuse "How can you be so sure about these things ...". Me "Because I am ...". Well now I've some hard ammo. DT_Xtremez_30:

 

[Sospan]

Good drills Sospan.

Information is a resource that many are unaware of!

TW

Many thanks Sospan. Quote from Mrs 'Fuse "How can you be so sure about these things ...". Me "Because I am ...". Well now I've some hard ammo. DT_Xtremez_30:

No doubt a good officer would have laid out these facts for us sooner or later DT_Xtremez_42:

Hopefully a few twitchy people will be put at ease with those facts, but there is always a chance Cameron would take a trip to the palace cap in hand!

 

[firestorm]

Yeah I was querying this rumour today at work amongst the Senior staff, at present if you are in a contract then ther eis bugger all they can do about it

They can terminate youir contract with 90 days notice and then reengage you on a new contract.

 

[Climebear]

They can terminate youir contract with 90 days notice and then reengage you on a new contract.

Members of HM Forces are not employed on contracts. See the Manual of Service Law Chapter 1:

Armed forces and employment law

11. Members of the armed forces do not have contracts of employment and much of the law which governs civilian employment does not apply to Service personnel. The Act does, however, deal with a number of areas which are broadly similar to those that would be covered in a contract of employment; for example enlistment, discharge, terms and conditions of service, forfeitures and deductions from pay and the making of complaints. All of these matters form part of Service law and are therefore addressed in MSL volume 1.

In place of contracts non-commissioned personnel are employed under the Royal Air Force Terms of Service Regulations (yes, really - RAF TOSRs) that are a statutory instrument whereas commissioned officers are employed by Royal Perogative (the same way that judges are employed).

 

[smallesttradeintheRAF]

.

However, as pensions outside of the forces become worse and worse our x factor may drop as we will be better off, even under AFPS 05.

What x-factor is that? I'm worse off in than out!DT_Xtremez_06:

 

[BillyBunter]

They can terminate youir contract with 90 days notice and then reengage you on a new contract.

Why would they do that , it would have to be extreme, if they turned round tommorow and said that to all people serving we are redoing your contract cockfags , then I think it would kick of big time, mass exodus from the 22 year and above lot who just riding time till los 30 and above.

 

[Soon To Leave]

Why would they do that , it would have to be extreme, if they turned round tommorow and said that to all people serving we are redoing your contract cockfags , then I think it would kick of big time, mass exodus from the 22 year and above lot who just riding time till los 30 and above.

New contracts would not affect your previous entitlements. You could end up with 2 different pension schemes.

Those that don't like it may leave...and that could be part of the overall plan (saves on redundancy payments).

 

[busby1971]

All out x factors

All out x factors

What x-factor is that? I'm worse off in than out!DT_Xtremez_06:

The X factor is worked out across the services as a whole, they cannot take into account specific differences in individual trades, such as yours, thats where FRIs come in.

 

[firestorm]

Why would they do that , it would have to be extreme....

It is extreme, though not uncommon outside the wire. Though as Climebear said, raf "contracts" are slightly different. I'd be wary of saying they are untouchable though.

My employer is currently threatening to sack over 5000 of us and then re-engage us on less favourable contracts.

 

[Leckie1]

It is extreme, though not uncommon outside the wire. Though as Climebear said, raf "contracts" are slightly different. I'd be wary of saying they are untouchable though.

My employer is currently threatening to sack over 5000 of us and then re-engage us on less favourable contracts.

Firestorm, you always seem to pop up on these threads regarding HM Forces Pensions. You seem almost to be willing and hoping that we get shafted.
You keep comparing our system to whatever your system is. And you keep reminding us that just because you lot are getting shafted, its only a matter of time before we do.
Now, you are free to give your opinion and I do sort of respect what you say, BUT, when you are continually almost wishing a shafting upon us, I start to lose a bit more respect for what you have to say.
What pleasure will you achieve, by seeing us lot, get shafted ??

Armed Forces pensions are totally different from anything you have in your line of work. It has already been stated on this thread, that our pensions can only be messed with by...........wait for it.....THE QUEEN.

Now although it's not set in stone, it is set in the next best thing !! IMO

If you think I'm talking drivel, please feel free to reveiw your posts from this and previous pension related threads.

I just don't see what you gain, from continually giving us your opinion, that we are all possibly doomed to lose our hard earned pension rights.

I think you are a Fireman, and if so, please do not ever compare what we do, to what you lot do.

 

[firestorm]

You're going to have to point out just where I've pointed out that I've said I hope you get shafted, I'd be interested to see the quote.
I'm coming from a realist point of view, from pension scheme that I thought was untouchable. Years back we thought our scheme was untouchable, we spoke of "acts of parliament" and "enshrined in law" and "they wouldn't dare".
Unfortunatley we've been proved very wrong in our mis-placed assumptions.
Now if you think the same thing of your scheme then fine. I'm just letting you know that unscrupulous politicians may praise you with mindless platitudes but don't be fooled by their real motives.
For the record (again) I hope your scheme remains untouched.
Just be wary.
You're right, I am a firefighter. I don't however compare what any of us do, apart from the fact the pension I accrued as a raf firefighter bought valuable years in my current scheme.
May I also point ou that the recent pension scheme changes brought in across those who are paid by the public purse were also brought in for HM armed forces? Regardles off Liz being oic the scheme.

 

[Ex-Splitter and Proud]

Firestorm, you always seem to pop up on these threads regarding HM Forces Pensions. You seem almost to be willing and hoping that we get shafted.

A bit harsh.... I don't think Firestorm's ever shown any hint of schadenfreude regarding Service pensions.

Armed Forces pensions are totally different from anything you have in your line of work. It has already been stated on this thread, that our pensions can only be messed with by...........wait for it.....THE QUEEN.

Now although it's not set in stone, it is set in the next best thing !! IMO

This subject was covered only four weeks ago on another thread (http://www.e-goat.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=437529#post437529). Just because a prerogative instrument has royal assent doesn't mean it isn't controlled by Parliament - and certainly doesn't mean it can't be reviewed/changed in future:
"12.1 These provisions are subject to continued monitoring and review as required."


How much do you think "...........wait for it.....THE QUEEN" has to do with it, really?


If you recall AFPS75 was changed as a result of (then) new Treasury rules, leading to AFPS05.... DT_Xtremez_42:

 

[Sospan]

A bit harsh.... I don't think Firestorm's ever shown any hint of schadenfreude regarding Service pensions.

If you recall AFPS75 was changed as a result of (then) new Treasury rules, leading to AFPS05.... DT_Xtremez_42:

AFPS75 wasn't changed it was superseded by 05, existing members had the choice to opt in or out.

 

[firestorm]

So the treasury can change it again then?

See my point. Just be aware, thats all.

 

[Realist78]

Firestorm, you always seem to pop up on these threads regarding HM Forces Pensions. You seem almost to be willing and hoping that we get shafted.
You keep comparing our system to whatever your system is. And you keep reminding us that just because you lot are getting shafted, its only a matter of time before we do.
Now, you are free to give your opinion and I do sort of respect what you say, BUT, when you are continually almost wishing a shafting upon us, I start to lose a bit more respect for what you have to say.
What pleasure will you achieve, by seeing us lot, get shafted ??

Armed Forces pensions are totally different from anything you have in your line of work. It has already been stated on this thread, that our pensions can only be messed with by...........wait for it.....THE QUEEN.

Now although it's not set in stone, it is set in the next best thing !! IMO

If you think I'm talking drivel, please feel free to reveiw your posts from this and previous pension related threads.

I just don't see what you gain, from continually giving us your opinion, that we are all possibly doomed to lose our hard earned pension rights.

I think you are a Fireman, and if so, please do not ever compare what we do, to what you lot do.

I think you're a bit off track here. Firestorm has always simply expressed what has happened to another section of the public sector (getting shafted etc). He's right (IMO) that if we think we're safe, we're deluding ourselves. Has your viewing of that bunch of t1ts in Westminster not taught you to view them with extreme suspicion? If they can feck us over to save money they will. The latest public sector pension review that is ongoing now doesn't (funny old thing) include MPs pensions and that speaks volumes!

 

[BillyBunter]

Fireman lol, what the hell did they do a while ago that screwed over the services. Never forgiven them for that period of striking, greedy and spoilt.

Anyway thats my opinion only and Ive digressed from the main story , i do apoligise and Firestorm not having a dog , just at the greedy union fat cats

 

[dangerous jonah]

SO,DT_Xtremez_25:

do we keep our AFPS75 pensions and all live happy ever after,

OR,DT_Xtremez_32:

are we going to get stiffed and forced to jump ship early just to save what little pension we have left?

Im sat propper on the fence just waiting movement either way,

Im ready to tick that little box on JPA.

just waiting for that little push off the fence, that i know, and so do all of you, is coming.

djDT_Xtremez_06:

 

[Soon To Leave]

SO,DT_Xtremez_25:

do we keep our AFPS75 pensions and all live happy ever after,

OR,DT_Xtremez_32:

are we going to get stiffed and forced to jump ship early just to save what little pension we have left?

Im sat propper on the fence just waiting movement either way,

Im ready to tick that little box on JPA.

just waiting for that little push off the fence, that i know, and so do all of you, is coming.

djDT_Xtremez_06:

I'm confident our existing pensions are safe (particularly on APFS 75). It's our future pensions that are likely to change.

Wait for Redundancies after SDR. I'm sure they're coming. If they don't, THEN press the button.