Remembrance "duty"

[rocket scientist]

A bit of a contentious one here maybe but here goes. I live in the same town as my boss and he asked last year he asked if I would attend our remembrance ceremony and lay a wreath as he would be attending another ceremony in an adjacent town. I suspect that this was due to the fact that his ceremony was bigger, there were more important people there and so his social standing would benefit. I was happy to attend, although I did feel uncomfortable in church as I am not religious but I did enjoy chatting to the old boys.

This year, the boss has decided he will attend the ceremony in our home town instead (I suspect his social standing didn't benefit as much as he thought it would) and yesterday he asked if I "wanted" to lay a wreath at the ceremony he attended last year (15 miles away from home). There are 2 issues here - I do not wish to attend our home town ceremony if he is there because I don't want to be "his monkey" and told who to talk to because I have been in that situation too many times now. At the same time I don't see why I should attend a ceremony 15 miles away in a town I don't live in just because it doesn't suit him.

Now the question is : "can I be ordered to attend any form of remembrance ceremony?". He hasn't said so yet but I would like to be forearmed. I was told a few years ago now that a serviceman can't be ordered to attend anything that involves religion ie. a church service but I don't know if or where that is laid down.

I just feel really awkward about this - like I say, I have no problem with paying my respects but I don't see why I should do something to make the bosses like easier.

 

[Stevienics]

1. No, you don't have to.
2. You're phurked anyway - he'll judge you on it.

 

[rocket scientist]

1. No, you don't have to.

Is that stated anywhere ie. QRs?

2. You're phurked anyway - he'll judge you on it.

That's not an issue, I can handle that and I've not got long left anyway.

 

[E E E E E E E E AR]

Now the question is : "can I be ordered to attend any form of remembrance ceremony?". He hasn't said so yet but I would like to be forearmed. I was told a few years ago now that a serviceman can't be ordered to attend anything that involves religion ie. a church service but I don't know if or where that is laid down.

I'm trying to dig out the QR for you, but yes, you can be ordered to attend it, as a military parade (as with any parade and as a duty). You cannot be ordered or compelled to attend a religious service.

I'll keep digging!

 

[rocket scientist]

I'm trying to dig out the QR for you, but yes, you can be ordered to attend it, as a military parade (as with any parade and as a duty). You cannot be ordered or compelled to attend a religious service.

I'll keep digging!

Can that be any parade, anywhere that the OC decides or should it be connected with the establishment where I am based?

 

[E E E E E E E E AR]

Can that be any parade, anywhere that the OC decides or should it be connected with the establishment where I am based?

I guess you'd have to argue the toss on that (unless others on here know better). You can be ordered to attend a course anywhere in the country.

Queens Regulations for the Royal Air Force

Chapter 13 - Section 2 - QR837 - Religion and Chaplaincy Services - Para (5)
"No one is to be compelled to attend divine service against their wishes."

If he makes you go, have a crack at taking a service vehicle and kick up a stink if he refuses;
Chapter 5 - QR174A - Remembrance - Para (2) - Remembrance Sunday
"Transport required to convey personnel invited to attend local religious observances ... may be used at the discretion of commanding officers."

 

[rocket scientist]

Yeh, I have found a reference within QR160 Day of National Remembrance - "Establishments and units are to conform generally to such arrangements as may be made by local authorities for the celebration of Remembrance Day services" which is a bit woolly in my case as the establishment I am at is run by QinetiQ and the parades are 10 miles away and have no connection with the unit.

Thanks for your help - it may not be an issue but I do like to be one step ahead of the game.

Amendment - QQ do hold a small ceremony on the site on the 11th, not Remembrance Sunday which we do attend - I have not problem with that.

 

[Stevienics]

If it's not promulgated (announced) as a church parade, it's not a church parade.

 

[rocket scientist]

If it's not promulgated (announced) as a church parade, it's not a church parade.

It's not promulgated at all - it's just something the boss wants to do. Like I say, I was happy to attend last year as it's my home town and he wasn't there but I don't want to be there this year if he is as he'll take over.

 

[rocket scientist]

If you don't want to do it simply say no.

That's the point of my post - I wanted to know if I can.

 

[applecruncher]

MT

MT

If the worst comes to the worst refuse to drive, insist on a car with driver.
How's your stomach after that dodgy take-away on Saturday? The one you have a receipt for.

 

[Old Wobbly]

There are 2 issues here really. The first can be dealt with simply by telling your boss a little white lie along the lines of, "I'd love to attend said ceremony but already have firm family commitments that day/weekend."

The second regarding church parades etc is well catered for as servicemen from national service to present times have tried to absent themselves from the religious service. As you would be representing your Station, you can be ordered to take part in the external parade, march past etc. You don't have to enter the church. You just have to wait outside for the parade to reform after the church service. You may find it warmer in the church, particularly at this time of the year!!

 

[rocket scientist]

As you would be representing your Station, you can be ordered to take part in the external parade, march past etc

There is no formal march past or parade. I am one of 2 serving personnel at a remote MoD establishment run by QinetiQ which is nowhere near either of the 2 services mentioned.

 

[4everAD]

Interestingly my Unit have decided to combine the Remembrance parade with a Christian church service, hymns, sermon, blessing etc. All personnel have been ordered to attend despite personal objections on the grounds of religious beliefs and being compelled to attend etc.

 

[vim_fuego]

Just say you can't do it because you have something else going on...try to remember he doesn't own you and it's just a job not a religious cult!

 

[needsabiggerfuse]

Interestingly my Unit have decided to combine the Remembrance parade with a Christian church service, hymns, sermon, blessing etc. All personnel have been ordered to attend despite personal objections on the grounds of religious beliefs and being compelled to attend etc.

Personnel cannot be ordered to attend a religious ceremony. Full stop. I was nabbed for a parade in the dying days of my time; IIRC I was about 3 weeks short of handing my big blue hat in. Did the organised shuffle, but sidestepped at the church door. The Stn Cmdr arrived a few minutes later with the great 'n' the good and gave me the 'evil eye'. It later came to my ears that the SWO had been asked who was it who had 'caused an embarrassment' at the church. "... was it you?", "Yes ... read my docs ... non-Christian ...", "I'll inform Himself". Nothing more heard other than the snapping of pencils and grating of teeth.

 

[Rugby-Jock-Lad]

Interestingly my Unit have decided to combine the Remembrance parade with a Christian church service, hymns, sermon, blessing etc. All personnel have been ordered to attend despite personal objections on the grounds of religious beliefs and being compelled to attend etc.

Are you STILL in that "HAPPY PLACE" 4Ever????

 

[Tidge]

So do you not want to go based on the church stuff or are you objecting because your boss wants you to go to the other town? You say you didn't mind going to your home one?

I may come from the less cynical view that your boss appears to be spreading the blue footprint love as far as they can. After all the military spend so much time hiding behind fences that it's nice for the public to have that personal link to a serviceman whose colleagues and forebears gave the ultimate sacrifice. At a time of remembrance we should spread that footprint far and wide.

Rather than hobnobbing your boss might simply be taking the view that he drove last year so this year it's your turn, fair is fair.

I've helped out at the cadets for many years both before and after I joined and whilst we don't order them we suggest it's the right thing to do. Yes your boss can't order you but rather than just saying no (which will **** them off after all your are just the two blue suitors) offer something else and throw them a bone to work with.

 

[Barch]

It is about time that the religious side of the Remembrance Parade was totally removed.

 

[StickyFingers]

Interestingly my Unit have decided to combine the Remembrance parade with a Christian church service, hymns, sermon, blessing etc. All personnel have been ordered to attend despite personal objections on the grounds of religious beliefs and being compelled to attend etc.

Yea,no.

If you do puss out and go in remember to take a pound for the collection plate.