The value of engineers

[Tin basher]

Now from the outset this is not a dig merely an observation. Censuscontracting do a cracking job of flagging up jobs for service leavers. But my fellow engineers just look at the salary offers in the latest threads posted, then reflect upon which post has the greater remuneration.

Senior Quality Engineer £40,000- £48,000 pa + benefits
Manufacturing Engineer £28-36k pa + benefits
Estimator- Composites Division, Aerospace Engineering £38-44k pa + benefits
Bid Manager-Aerospace Engineering-Farnborough,£44,000 pa
Supply Chain Manager, Farnborough, £55,000

 

[John Lloyd]

Now from the outset this is not a dig merely an observation. Censuscontracting do a cracking job of flagging up jobs for service leavers. But my fellow engineers just look at the salary offers in the latest threads posted, then reflect upon which post has the greater renumeration.

Senior Quality Engineer £40,000- £48,000 pa + benefits
Manufacturing Engineer £28-36k pa + benefits
Estimator- Composites Division, Aerospace Engineering £38-44k pa + benefits
Bid Manager-Aerospace Engineering-Farnborough,£44,000 pa
Supply Chain Manager, Farnborough, £55,000

That would be a supply chain manager, when I worked in a distribution company our logistics Director was a brilliant bloke, came into the company, turned the systems upside down, improved efficiency, cut stock holding by millions and had the highest salary in the company bar the chief exec. He finished his contract period and walked off with a massive bonus package based on savings and performance. There is no way I would have related to him as a stacker.

Oh, and, it's Remuneration not Renumeration.

 

[Tin basher]

Oh, and, it's Remuneration not Renumeration.

'course it is thanks, sorted out the speeling error.DT_Xtremez_42:

 

[vim_fuego]

Supply chain can be a programme breaker...especially on complex programmes. It goes beyond simply sorting and stacking into sourcing complex often not built yet items, working with commercial and corporate on matters of commercial or national sensitivity with certain items, recieiving and storing and maintaining (in our case one sub is about 1,100,000 parts) items...even down to giving a pump a quarter turn on the shelf when stated to save the bearing, ensuring kanbans and JIT delivery keep working from a range of 100's of suppliers, attribution is recorded, constantly checked and updated etc and it just goes on and on...Great if you're on top of it...not so great in commercial land if engineers are standing around partless whilst collecting a wage!

 

[Max]

Surely that sort of job is more like the man in charge of supply for the RAF than the guy behind the counter dishing out socks?

Are all these jobs for the same company at the same place?

 

[snowball1]

You need to grasp the reality of civvy street!

 

[busby1971]

You need to compare jobs of the same level that have similar attributes rather than a random list of current listings.

Once you've done this you can then look at how society values different jobs, of course you then need to take into account skills shortage or over supply and local effects.

Risk, responsibility and barriers to entry are probably the biggest determinants of salary.

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[Max]

You need to grasp the reality of civvy street!

Not sure who that's aimed at?

 

[propersplitbrainme]

But my fellow engineers ...................

Furthermore my friend, neither you nor I are or were engineers - we are classed as technicians. Engineers have a degree......

Just saying DT_Xtremez_42:

 

[vim_fuego]

Surely that sort of job is more like the man in charge of supply for the RAF than the guy behind the counter dishing out socks?

Are all these jobs for the same company at the same place?

Agreed...sounds like a low to middling exec position to me...his minions would probably be lucky to recieve even half of his salary.

 

[Tin basher]

Furthermore my friend, neither you nor I are or were engineers - we are classed as technicians. Engineers have a degree...... Just saying DT_Xtremez_42:

Off Topic. I beg to differ, from Chambers dictionary

Engineer - A person who designs, makes or works with machinery, a person esp. a member of the armed forces who designs and builds military apparatus.

Engineering - The profession or activities of an engineer.

I am an engineer and have been since 1973 when I started my engineering apprenticeship with English Electric. There is a thread on here somewhere that is many many pages long that tries to decide what an engineer is or is not, quals that are required, where engineer ends and technician begins etc etc. Heck one of the current Halfords ads uses song to heap praise on one of it's self labelled "technicians", there are domestic appliance "engineers" listed in the local papers. The validity and applicability of both words has been watered down to such an extent the car mechanics can now be described as vehicle technicians. Off Topic


On topic - the value of engineers is hard to quantify when the label can be applied so freely to all sorts of people many of whom have never worked as an engineer but may have been project planners, managers, production controllers, dish washer fixers, etc. The differing salaries in the first post perhaps has more to do with staff numbers under an individuals control and the size of the can the individual must carry if it all goes wrong.

 

[propersplitbrainme]

Well, regardless of what the dictionary says, I've always understood an engineer to be the thinker, the designer and builder of machines and the technician the practical chap who puts things together and fixes them. I've only ever fixed machines designed and built by others ergo I'm just a technician and probably don't possess the necessary qualifications to go straight for the engineer jobs cited in your OP.

 

[Rigga]

Engineering disciplines:

A design engineer is a designer - most may never touch the manufacturing side of their designs once they have qualified. Designers often do not remain in contact with their product after manufacture. and may contract out that task to others who may provide feedback for product improvements.

Manufacturing/production engineers may be the folk who sequence or adjust the manufacturing flow for best effect - again, they may not touch bare metal after qualification. Often once the object has left the building they no longer have contact with their product but respond to design changes.

A maintenance engineer (aka technician in some fields) may never build or design the objects they work on but know quite well how it works and how to fix it. Some do indeed re-design the product to work better in a less than perfect working environment. Sometimes those changes are fed back to the manufacurers/designers.

A technician may only be task trained to respond to prescribed symptoms with prescribed remedies.

Just my twopence worth.

 

[Keyser Söze]

Furthermore my friend, neither you nor I are or were engineers - we are classed as technicians. Engineers have a degree......

Just saying DT_Xtremez_42:

What happens when your so-called technicians also have an Engineering degree?

At the end of the day its only a bit of paper, albeit it takes quite alot of effort and ability to achieve it, I have nt changed into some uber boffin by dint of a BSc. The most intellegent, capable and gifted bloke I've ever worked with had a HNC.

Qualifications does not a genius make

 

[busby1971]

Qualifications does not a genius make

But idiots will hide behind qualifications,

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[propersplitbrainme]

Qualifications does not a genius make

???

Where did I say they did?

 

[Stevienics]

Do not confuse supply chain with suppy. The former describes the design and interlocking of the various linkages, from initial demand (and even reconising that demand when no-one else does), to satisfying that demand such that the consumer comes back and demand some more.

Supply is simply satisfying one or more links in that chain in a more systematic way.

 

[Puma]

The title Engineer seems to have been hi-jacked by the professionals, but as I see it, if you have to think and problem solve then you are an engineer, if you run/repair machines to a set of instructions you're a technician.

 

[John Lloyd]

Engineer, technician or mechanic? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...wrecked-car-motorbike-drove-civilisation.html

 

[Spearmint]

Engineer, technician or mechanic? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...wrecked-car-motorbike-drove-civilisation.html

Somebody who doesn't seem all that convincing more like.