A couple of admin questions - Next of kin and Religion

[Vee2]

So I've recently moved units and the admin here is very efficient, which is great.

However two issues have come up.

A few years ago I nominated my religion as non-denomination, mainly because my religious views are my own and I have no wish to share them with anybody, especially my employer. Now I've been informed that is not allowed and I must give a religious position, whether that be atheist or agnostic or whatever. Is this correct?

Secondly, I have had my ex-wife as my next of kin for many years now and I've been informed that the RAF won't allow me to nominate her as my next of kin as she is not family. I don't want any family members to be my next of kin but according to the guy from PMF on the phone last week, there is s JSP that states my next of kin must be a family member. Does anyone know how I can have my ex-wife as registered next of kin?

Many thanks in advance chaps and chapesses.

 

[True Blue Jack]

My recorded religion is also ND for pretty much the same reasons as you. If it wasn't permitted then it wouldn't be an option, just as "Jedi" isn't an option.

Your next-of-kin is the first one which applies to you from the list: spouse, child, parent, sibling, etc., so if you are divorced with no children but your parents are alive, then your parents are your next-of-kin. However, your emergency contact - which is what the RAF is interested in - can be anyone you choose. The fact that in most cases it happens to be the same as your next-of-kin is not relevant.

 

[Vee2]

But as I understand it, there is no legal definition of next of kin in this country, so I should be able to nominate whomever I wish, shouldn't I?

 

[True Blue Jack]

There is a legal definition of next-of-kin, the short version of which is in my first reply. But it is your emergency contact that your adminers need to be sure is correct and that can be anyone you choose it to be.

If you want your ex-wife to be your emergency contact then that is your prerogative.

 

[Vee2]

Thanks for the info.

One further question, where is it defined in law? The nearest thing I can find is to do with mental health and talks about nearest relatives, rather than next of kin, but that's specifically for mental health issues.

Thanks again.

 

[True Blue Jack]

I don't know the specific answer to your question - it's probably buried in hundreds of years of case law - except to say that in certain circumstances the RAF has an obligation to speak to your legal next-of-kin as well as your emergency contact when that's not the same person. It's usually to do with funeral arrangments, disposal of personal effects, things like that.

 

[ChrisBrit81]

As a reply to the religion question...

I have "No Religion" in my religion field on JPA. I changed it from "Church of England" for personal reasons and the admin staff were fine with it. I even have "No Religion" on my I.D. discs

 

[Soon To Leave]

As a reply to the religion question...

I have "No Religion" in my religion field on JPA. I changed it from "Church of England" for personal reasons and the admin staff were fine with it. I even have "No Religion" on my I.D. discs

I don't think Vee2 was implying he had no religion, just that he didn't want to disclose it.

 

[vim_fuego]

This thread takes me back to the ridiculous conversation I had with a clerk up at Kinloss a number of years ago...My then wife and I had split and she had moved 500 miles South to seal the deal...We were biding our time to get the cheapy divorce (2 years apart) but other than that had nothing to do with each other...I went to change my next of kin and wasn't allowed to have my parents on there because on paper I was still married...When I explained that if I was unlucky enough to have an accident and she was duly phoned she would probably laugh, say 'good!' and put the phone down so what was the bloody point??

As ever common sense was on ration and she had to stay on there until the papers were signed...

 

[FOMz]

Why isn't Jedi allowed TBJ? Civvy plod can be Jedi's - why can't we?

 

[Little Tronk]

Apparantly you only need 20 people to subscribe to a 'belief' to form a recognised church/religion!

 

[Mug?]

mutterings

mutterings

I seem to recall reading something recently about religion and that you have to have something in there? Went on to explain what differences were for agnostic/ aethiest. But can't remember where/ when I read it but thought at the time might cause confusion. may be something to do with pension as have been looking into that a fair bit!!

 

[True Blue Jack]

As ever common sense was on ration and she had to stay on there until the papers were signed...

To be fair, your clerks would only have been following direction from command. As I said earlier, there are occasions when we have to speak to your next-of-kin as well as your emergency contact if they happen to be different people so the way 'we' made sure we were able to was to insist that your next-of-kin - even if that was your estranged wife - was recorded. It was always (understandably) difficult to explain to people in your position why this had to be so.

Why isn't Jedi allowed TBJ? Civvy plod can be Jedi's - why can't we?

2 possible answers to this, take your pick:

1. Jedi is not a recognised religion, despite the number of people who recorded it as such in the last census.

2. Jedi is not included in the list of values in the religion field on JPA.

 

[vim_fuego]

To be fair, your clerks would only have been following direction from command. As I said earlier, there are occasions when we have to speak to your next-of-kin as well as your emergency contact if they happen to be different people so the way 'we' made sure we were able to was to insist that your next-of-kin - even if that was your estranged wife - was recorded. It was always (understandably) difficult to explain to people in your position why this had to be so.

Its not difficult in the slightest...I tell you we are 580 miles apart for a reason and you write down the next of kin I want...You inform 'command' of the adult moment we both just shared...

 

[True Blue Jack]

Its not difficult in the slightest...I tell you we are 580 miles apart for a reason and you write down the next of kin I want...You inform 'command' of the adult moment we both just shared...

Now Vim, you know better than to apply common sense to situations like this! Seriously, for years PSF's annual formal staff visits would look at next-of-kin records before anything else and if they found someone whose marital status was 'separated' but had anyone other than their spouse as next-of-kin that would mean an immediate formal observation and would set the scene for the whole of the rest of the visit.

It's not an issue any more because someone did have that adult moment and it is now your emergency contact which is recorded on JPA, not your next-of-kin. Your EC can be your ex-wife, your mum, or next door's cat if that's what you choose. OK, maybe not the cat but you get my point.

 

[Dragoon]

2 possible answers to this, take your pick:

1. Jedi is not a recognised religion, despite the number of people who recorded it as such in the last census.

2. Jedi is not included in the list of values in the religion field on JPA.

Whilst out on a job, I came across a Stacker (I think) who had just opened his brown paper envelope with his new dog tags in, and was very proud of the fact that his religion was now "Jedi", so yes, you can get that put on you're tags, he must have done that little bit more to get that though.

 

[ForgottenName]

This question over Next of Kin is a conundrum and, whatever the does or says, there will always be people who disagree.

The following is an extract from a Citizen's Advice Bureau website:

Next of kin

In some situations, for example, when you go into hospital or complete a life insurance form, you may be asked to give the name of your next of kin. Next of kin has no legal meaning but, in practice, hospitals and other organisations generally recognise husbands, wives and close blood relatives as next of kin. However, sometimes couples who live together aren't recognised as being next of kin.
Living together

If you live together, whether or not you will be recognised as your partner's next of kin will depend on the organisation you're dealing with.
For example, prisons will usually accept the name of a partner as the person to contact if something happens to the prisoner.
Hospitals will usually accept your partner as the next of kin.
No one is entitled to give consent to medical treatment for another adult unless they are unconscious or unable to give consent through mental incapacity. However, in practice, doctors do usually discuss decisions with the patient's family and this will normally include your partner.
If an organisation refuses to accept the name of your partner as your next of kin, there is little you can do about this other than to ask them to change their policy.
Marriage

Your husband or wife will always have authority to act as next of kin.
No one is entitled to give consent to medical treatment for another adult unless they are unconscious or unable to give consent through mental incapacity. However, in practice, doctors do usually discuss decisions with the patient's family.


​

With the revisions to the regulations that took place following the introduction of JPA I believe that the MoD has now got it the administration right, ie, the splitting up of an identifiable Next of Kin and an Emergency Contact. However, the MoD will still end up treading a fine line between informing those people who the deceased or casualty wants to be informed, informing those people who believe (rightly or wrongly) that they should be informed and informing those people who have a legal right to be informed but the deceased did not release contact information prior to death.



I recall a case where we informed the parents and the deceased's girlfriend only to discover, through a trusted member of the family, that the deceased had another secret relationship with another girl wherein a child was involved. Fortunately, this case was resolved itself amicably - just.


However, many don't......

 

[ChrisBrit81]

I don't think Vee2 was implying he had no religion, just that he didn't want to disclose it.

I guess I was just letting him know that that exists as an option. At least there is a "no religion" option these days. When I joined up I was FORCED to have C of E on my tags and records, despite many protests. Just because I wasn't a Muslim or Catholic, like they're the only religions in the world eh?

 

[TrickyTree]

I guess I was just letting him know that that exists as an option. At least there is a "no religion" option these days. When I joined up I was FORCED to have C of E on my tags and records, despite many protests. Just because I wasn't a Muslim or Catholic, like they're the only religions in the world eh?

I too was strongly "advised" to nominate CofE as my religion despite not having been christened and having been an avowed atheist all my life.

This means that I lied on attestation, which I believe carries a penalty, on conviction, of up to 2 years imprisonment. Well, bring it on, Plod!

To be honest though - does it matter? I would guess it only becomes important should you die in service and one thing then is beyond dispute - you won't give a toss, really, will you?

 

[Soon To Leave]

I too was strongly "advised" to nominate CofE as my religion despite not having been christened and having been an avowed atheist all my life.

This means that I lied on attestation, which I believe carries a penalty, on conviction, of up to 2 years imprisonment. Well, bring it on, Plod!

To be honest though - does it matter? I would guess it only becomes important should you die in service and one thing then is beyond dispute - you won't give a toss, really, will you?

avowed and atheist are words that don't really go together.

Whilst you can deny existence, you can't be passionate about something you don't believe exists.

If you end your days in eternal purgatory your views might change after you die.