Advice on joining as a SNCO ATC

[scbond]

Hi everyone!

Been a member for (off the top of my head) just over three years now. I joined back when I was first looking into joining the RAF but, sadly, things didn't go my way in the recruitment process. However, things are looking up and so I want to try again.

As a quick summary, I've wanted to be an ATC for as long as I can remember and when I last applied it was right in the middle of the switch from an airmen/airwomen role to a SNCO role and I was turned away as they wanted a little more leadership experience/skills first. After that I went for Flight Ops but sadly failed the hearing test. However, recently I had a hearing test done and, according to the specialist at my local NHS hospital, my hearing is perfectly fine.

So, what I'd like to know now is...does anyone have any tips on re-applying? What I'm mainly looking for is information on selling the leadership responsibilities in interview but also reinforcing them with something like a leadership course that may be beneficial. As it stands, I've mainly been running a department at work when the manager and/or supervisor haven't been present or available and the helpful advisor on the careers helpline said that technically you don't require anything as it's the qualifications they're mainly looking for.

Any help and advice is greatly appreciated in advance!

 

[Replicant]

Might sound obvious but, think about any time in your life that you would class as taking a leading role. Doesn't even have to be an official thing. Team captain in a football game, organizing events or any other situations where you have either led or deligated in anyway.

 

[scbond]

Ok, thanks! Would you or anyone recommend doing something like a leadership course at say somewhere like LearnDirect? I called the careers advice line and the lady said that it wasn't a requirement to have any prior leadership experience but obviously it's down to the AFCO and the interviewer at the end of the day.

Another thing I'd like to know is...has it ever been known for anyone using NHS medical results and presenting them to pass the medical test? As I said, I failed the hearing twice but the NHS just recently gave me a pass with normal hearing frequency levels.

 

[nephilim]

Organise a charity event. You will have lead an event, and people, whilst also doing something worthwhile as well.

 

[scbond]

Ok, so now that I've found out that my hearing was absolutely fine and was turned away for no reason at all, I've now been told they put the Maths grade up from a C to a B, which rules me out. Pretty annoyed about this but anyone got any suggestions as to what I can do? The closest thing to ATC is Flight Ops Assistant but I doubt I'll get a civilian ATC job with that. Basically, my option is to go to a school for a year and sit a Maths GCSE and then no doubt get told I was mis-informed once I've got it.

 

[opsgeek]

Its not a wind up, you really do need Maths GCSE at B grade. BTW, FOA trade skills are civilian recognised in the form of NVQ
which are transferable to civil aviation, MIL ATC generally are not.

 

[scbond]

I didn't think it was a wind-up...I just think it's ridiculous that they change it quicker than you can do anything about it. They now expect me to commit to retaking a GCSE for a year and after I've done that it'll probably be at a C again...or closed, like they did to me when I first tried to sign up.

Can you tell me exactly what qualification I can earn in the two trades? I would like to emigrate to America/Canada in the future after working in the RAF and I would've thought that, although the qualification is appropriate in Flight Ops, the experience isn't and I'd find myself having to apply as a trainee ATC.

 

[J Y Kelly]

Give up. It seems to me that you are indulging in some kind of fantasy about Air Traffic Control that your not equipped to fulfil. Find something easier.

 

[scbond]

Give up. It seems to me that you are indulging in some kind of fantasy about Air Traffic Control that your not equipped to fulfil. Find something easier.

In what way am I "indulging into a fantasy"?!

 

[briggfairy]

i'm no expert but i think the fact that you've failed the medical twice might well be a massive stumbling block, i know that the nhs say your good to go but the raf might not see it that way, have you considered just going down the civvy route, might be work having a look at whilst you reapply just in case

 

[scbond]

Civilian route is the preference but the odds are incredibly difficult. As for the medical, I called the AFCO and they said that having it checked by the NHS was fine. The NHS was a proper test with comprehensive results...no "tap the ruler on the radiator when you hear the beep" here!

Things like this have left me extremely annoyed with the RAF...pretty much wasted my time for three years giving me the wrong information. I would still quite happily go for Flight Ops Assistant as long as I pick up a valid qualification and experience that can be considered when applying for an ATC role in the future in the civilian world.

 

[J Y Kelly]

In what way am I "indulging into a fantasy"?!

Been a member for (off the top of my head) just over three years now.

I've wanted to be an ATC for as long as I can remember

What have you done to progress you career aspirations? Have you ever got so far as taking the aptitude tests at Cranwell? Have you attempted to arrange visits to Air Traffic Control Towers? Have you asked to look around CATCS at Shawbury? I think that you seriously underestimate the commitment and dedication that you need to put in to achieve success. There are 2.5 million unemployed in this country the RAF can pick and choose who it wants and to be honest it needs to be more selective. Your ambitions remain a fantasy until you can demonstrate some kind of progress.

 

[scbond]

Have you attempted to arrange visits to Air Traffic Control Towers?

Yes, actually, I have.

Do I know what I'm doing? Yes.

Did I go for ATC only to be told I'd had hearing loss by the RAF, which then left me working in a shop not knowing what else I could possibly do as a career? Yes.

Do I appreciate ignorant, demeaning arseholes telling me what to do? No!

I'm here for advice from serious adults, not people who behave like children, thanks. Look at the others who have posted here because you can learn from them.

 

[J Y Kelly]

Like shooting fish in a barrel.

Do I appreciate ignorant, demeaning arseholes telling me what to do? No!

Try that line on your Instructor in Advanced when you have just been given an Unsat in Director.


JY Kelly. Hanging around Air Traffic Control Towers since 1978.

 

[Barch]

Yes, actually, I have.

Do I know what I'm doing? Yes.

Did I go for ATC only to be told I'd had hearing loss by the RAF, which then left me working in a shop not knowing what else I could possibly do as a career? Yes.

Do I appreciate ignorant, demeaning arseholes telling me what to do? No!

I'm here for advice from serious adults, not people who behave like children, thanks. Look at the others who have posted here because you can learn from them.

If you want a career in the Royal Air Force you might want to consider your responses to people on here, anyone of the posters could be the person that puts the final tick in the box on your application or even your future boss.

Think about it!

 

[scbond]

If you want a career in the Royal Air Force you might want to consider your responses to people on here, anyone of the posters could be the person that puts the final tick in the box on your application or even your future boss.

Think about it!

Then surely he should consider speaking to me like an adult?! It is he who needs to consider his responses.

 

[FOMz]

Play nicely kiddywinkies

Play nicely kiddywinkies

Guys,

Please keep ALL posts in the Recruitment forums factual and on topic. Keep the insults to yourselves.

DO NOT let this thread descend any further into an arguement.

 

[scbond]

That's fine with me...I only wanted some advice on what I asked about the relation of ATC and FOA...nothing along the lines of whether I know what I'm doing or not.

 

[Poultice Walloper]

The medical standards for the military are generally higher than for civilians. As already commented on, two failures to meet the exacting standards required for your chosen military career should be accepted, and a signal for you to move on. Best of luck!

 

[Warwick Hunt]

I didn't think it was a wind-up...I just think it's ridiculous that they change it quicker than you can do anything about it. They now expect me to commit to retaking a GCSE for a year and after I've done that it'll probably be at a C again...or closed, like they did to me when I first tried to sign up.

Can you tell me exactly what qualification I can earn in the two trades? I would like to emigrate to America/Canada in the future after working in the RAF and I would've thought that, although the qualification is appropriate in Flight Ops, the experience isn't and I'd find myself having to apply as a trainee ATC.

The GCSE Maths requirement from a grade C to a B was risen on recommendation by OASC for ALL aptitude-based branches (Pilot, WSOp, ATC Officer/SNCO, ABM) because of the high volume of candidates who failed what is a very mathematically-based aptitude selection process. To combat this, they decided to raise the bar and have grade B as the minimum Maths qualification. So if you are looking for a career in the SNCO ATC branch then yes, they WILL expect you to commit to retaking a GCSE for a year in order to redress the balance because if you don't, then that branch (along with all of the other aptitude-based branches) will not be an option to you. End of. Besides, it could work in your favour if you do commit to studying again as it shows commitment and bottle to a career in the RAF and that is something selection boards look very favourably on. However, if you beleive that you will only gain a grade C, then my advice to you as a recruiter is to seriously reconsider your option and look at the Flight Ops Assistant trade instead of SNCO ATC - only you can make that decision. Is it a pain in the arse? Probably, yes. Is it going to change? No it will not. Is there anything you can do about it? Well, yes, sort out GCSE B in Maths.

As for your hearing issues, regardless of whether the NHS say your hearing is fine and whether you think the test that they give you is better than the one for the RAF, when/if you get to OASC, you will need to meet the standards that OASC will set which, as has been alluded to already, is a lot higher than what is required for the civilian sector. If you don't meet OASC's standards then SNCO ATC wil not be open to you. End of.

There's nothing saying if you do come in as an FOA that you can't try for SNCO ATC later in your RAF career, as long as you hold the requisite qualifications (including GCSE Maths grade B). WRT qualifications that can be earned, well I'm not in TG9 so I can't tell you what the branches will offer but I wager that someone in the know will be along later to post what quals are available to you in the trade.

What I will tell you though, with my recruiter's hat on, is you massively need to curb your attitude. As has been alluded to, calling other posters on this forum children will not do you favours and if you were sat in front of me now wanting a job in the RAF especially for a role that will give you the rank of sergeant after a very minimal amount of time, I don't think it will look good for you. Something to bear in mind.....