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Afghan pull out

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So the yanks and ourselves are, in the main, moving out of Afghanistan was it worth the 20 years we spent there?

Chief of Defence Staff General Sir Nick Carter said "All those who fought in Afghanistan can hold their heads up very high," .........."The British military was not defeated on the battlefield. They showed remarkable adaptability against a very cunning and nefarious opponent, and they showed phenomenal courage under great pressure."

www.bbc.co.uk

UK military not defeated in Afghanistan, says head of British armed forces

General Sir Nick Carter responds to a mother questioning what her soldier son died for in Afghanistan.
www.bbc.co.uk
 
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"The British military was not defeated on the battlefield. "

They didn't win either.

I wish we had Governments that can keep their noses out of other country's business. If those countries want to fight themselves back into the stone age let them get on with it.
 
Barch said:
"The British military was not defeated on the battlefield. "

They didn't win either.

I wish we had Governments that can keep their noses out of other country's business. If those countries want to fight themselves back into the stone age let them get on with it.
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General Westmoreland, during the Vietnam War, was also crowing how they (USA) never lost strategically a battle in Vietnam.

They didn't win either despite continually "surging" more man-power into the conflict!!

20 Years wasted!!

In hindsight the Governments, post 9/11, must have wished it was only a combination of air power and special forces in the Afghan campaign. Quick demolition job to trash the Taliban and back out but no doubt the usual brainwashed Officer/Politican type speak of "But you don't understand the deeper context, blah, blah, blah" speil would have been used on the "Plebs"!!!
 
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So when was the last last war actually won?

Korea Draw, Vietnam Lost, Falklands not really a war, Iraq 1 just liberated Kuwait, Afghan not much achieved, Iraq 2 doesn’t feel like a success, Libya too early to say, but doesn’t look good.

I’ve ignored a couple of internal conflicts and break ups.

So by my reasoning WWII appears to be the last decisive outcome.
 
There is a argument that what we have done is prevent the collapse of a moderate government and the takeover by a repressive cult that will send the human rights of 38 million people into the dark ages....that's not necessarily a bad thing.
 
Downsizer said:
There is a argument that what we have done is prevent the collapse of a moderate government and the takeover by a repressive cult that will send the human rights of 38 million people into the dark ages....that's not necessarily a bad thing.
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Unfortunately the Taliban is on the march again and no doubt it is heading that way again with Warlords/Taliban/Clans/Theifdoms being formed again. Afghanistan is NOT a country. It is Kabul. Outside of that it is Bandit Country...Same old, same old!!!
 
Downsizer said:
There is a argument that what we have done is prevent the collapse of a moderate government and the takeover by a repressive cult that will send the human rights of 38 million people into the dark ages....that's not necessarily a bad thing.
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Agreed in fact it was a good thing, sadly though I feel once we have left the repressive cult will take over and send the country even further backwards. Freedom of expression, freedom of choice, freedom to follow a different mythical sky fairy, music, dancing, women's rights, anyone opposed to the regime, all will disappear. Like minded groups will find safe haven to organise themselves, plot and plan. Afghanistan's problems has never been solved by any outside nations forces.
 
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Downsizer said:
There is a argument that what we have done is prevent the collapse of a moderate government and the takeover by a repressive cult that will send the human rights of 38 million people into the dark ages....that's not necessarily a bad thing.
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Problem is we can always come in and kick ass when they are the government of a country, but have failed repeatedly to beat them as guerrilla organisations that melt into the background with ease, with a local population too scared to rat on them because they know what's to come when the western armies go home.
 
I only opened this thread as the title sounded like a new sexual move!
 
Gents.... I think you're missing the point here. It was fantastic value for all the shareholders in the military complex.
 
StickyFingers said:
Gents.... I think you're missing the point here. It was fantastic value for all the shareholders in the military complex.
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Suppose it provided Baubles and Mentions in Desptaches for the "wonderful" way the campaign was conducted by the MOD Echelons. We were "too good for Iraq" after all and this was to be "Our Campaign". Another thing dressed up as a success by an out-of-touch Government/MOD. No great comfort to all those who were killed/maimed! And the lack of trust that the USA will have for us in potential future operations as the UK puts cost before effectiveness.
 
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We only got involved because of Tony B-Liar and his man-love affair with G Double Ya's Bush.
We were thrown out of Afghanistan a hundred plus years ago by the great, great, great grandads of the current mob.
The Soviets were thrown out by the grandads of the current lot a few years before Ossie Bin-Liner popped up.
Nobody has been in control of Afghanistan since Ghengis Khan and even he didn't stay.
All we have achieved is a massive bill, 400/500 dead and even more disabled and now we have now 'given' the Taliban new weapons and other kit because the brave ANA/ANP have chucked away their uniforms and have gone back to the farms.
All in all a total and utter fuster cluck.
 
I've a good little book in my collection called 'The Great Game' which goes into a detailed look on all aspects of Anglo / Russian involvement in that region. It's books like that which gave me the perspective of looking at conundrums like this in decades (hell even centuries) rather than the immediate losses of now. I don't support our involvement, it was half arsed from the start.

I'm happy to be corrected on this but Afghanistan is a hard block to what was the Russian Empire to the likes of India, the Indian Ocean etc - hence why they built the likes of Kabul Airport in the 60's or helped the US build the road network - as it would ease their access providing Afghanistan remained an Ally.

Despite enough western involvement and attempts to influence Afghanistan will not and probably not ever recognise democracy as a reliable construct, at least not for another 100 years or so. It is a melting pot of many tribes, these tribes don't recognise state boundaries like that between itself and Pakistan and they quite happily hold blood feuds lasting 1000's of years over something as stupid as a neighbour allowing a dog to shit on their lawn.

It's dead ground, always has been and always will be. We don't gain anything in having it in our asset log but it does block the Russians from having true control and costs us very little (from withdrawal onwards). This flux of the populace going one way then the other, picking up weaponary etc left behind by the last lot trying to 'control it' are just fulfilling the role of security guard.
 
Safe to say Taliban were suppressed in the country not expelled. Otherwise with the speed of them retaking territories they lost nothing gained. I hate say this but our Intelligence service since 1. Soviet Union leaving Afghanistan till present seems to gone awry.
2. Strange death of Dr DAVID KELLY 3. What Weapons of Mass Destruction. 4. Location of Ozzy the Bin Loader in Pakistan. 5. Twin Towers Pentagon etc pilots Africa US Embassies need I go on. Call me a soft muddled head fool but if the Intelligence is poor or rank STOP THINK AGAIN.
 
One Winter tour turned into Spring.

Our CoC were patting themselves on the back about how we had brought security to the population and stopped the poppy farming.

As we were leaving, the IntO took me for a drive and said to look outside the perimeter fence - starting mere feet from our own fenceline were fields and fields of poppies.

Laughed like a hyena, until it sunk in that people had lost their lives and we had achieved the square root of feck all.
 
Well lets wish the Chinese a hearty cheer on their exploits in Afghanistan:devilish: I think there has to be questions on what involvement in Afghanistan in cost of soldiers lives and wounded. Appreciate the old slang You take the coin and wear the badge. Though you do query your leaders folly.
 
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