AMM's-whose fault is it anyway?

[Captain Slog]

I took them out this morning but found all the simple servants were on a gash day off which cheered me up no end so they've gone back in the drawer till I'm really wound up - Thursday's looking good though.

DT_Xtremez_42:DT_Xtremez_25:

Us "simple servents" were not on a gash day off Hu, It was granted by Her Maj for all the hard work we do having to put up with the flack form you Boys in Blue. Remember you used to get it from the Queen Mum when you were a Jelly Tot!

 

[Blue Van Man]

I took them out this morning but found all the simple servants were on a gash day off which cheered me up no end so they've gone back in the drawer till I'm really wound up - Thursday's looking good though.

DT_Xtremez_42:DT_Xtremez_25:

What is so unique about Thursday, Is this a Wobblies time of the week as opposed to the time of the month??

 

[FairyGoodGuy]

The whole scheme to me looks like we are going down the same route as the Navy with their Aircraft Engineering Mechanics who did all trades and the Army Air Corps. We needed people to pump fuel and gas the tyres. so do the other Services, if all are trained to about the same level, would they not be interchangable?

Makes sense if we are just going to have an Army with enhanced capabilities as we don't have much of an airforce or Navy left.

AN

Having just come away from 2 years working with the REME and the AAC trust me you don't want the Pan Trash that the AAC pump out touching anything.. literally. Your average RAF LAC has more brains in his little finger than the whole of the AAC Pan Trash fleet... Cannon Fodder was never more true.

THEY ARE NOT INTERCHANGABLE!!!!!!!!!!!! I speak from experience.

 

[TobyJugHeadFTR]

Fair point me old! I see what you mean trenchDT_Xtremez_19: .

Ah Big W small Izard , I often wonder whos fault it is and as we all know it is some office monkey who has never left the comfort of his own ass and done some real work.
To top it all off there training is inadequate and they are not worth the money that is wasted on them but thatis only my opinion and im sure someone is likely to have a retort for me . Anyway csas ya later no spills

 

[Spurdog]

Timmy, come on down

Timmy, come on down

As an instructor at a base west of the M6 I have read this thread with interest. Some of the points raised have been very interesting and have got to the nub of the problem. The sylabus is not decided by us but is dictated by the trade sponser, this is the same for all the courses taught here. If there is something that should be added to the AMM course then you should go through the appropriate channels. What I am disappointed by is the attitude displayed by some of the contributers to this discussion. Timmy my boy if you are reading this then perhaps you should climb out of your ivory tower and apply for instructor duties. Put your money where your mouth is and give us the benefit of your great wisdom. As long as you are good at banging your head against a brick wall you will fit right in. What you will quickly discover is just how hard instructing really is. It is very easy to critisise Tossford but lets set the record straight. The instructors here work hard and do their utmost in very difficult circumstances. Just remember we can only teach to the sylabus that is provided to the students we are given.


Those who can........teach!

 

[TobyJugHeadFTR]

As an instructor at a base west of the M6 I have read this thread with interest. Some of the points raised have been very interesting and have got to the nub of the problem. The sylabus is not decided by us but is dictated by the trade sponser, this is the same for all the courses taught here. If there is something that should be added to the AMM course then you should go through the appropriate channels. What I am disappointed by is the attitude displayed by some of the contributers to this discussion. Timmy my boy if you are reading this then perhaps you should climb out of your ivory tower and apply for instructor duties. Put your money where your mouth is and give us the benefit of your great wisdom. As long as you are good at banging your head against a brick wall you will fit right in. What you will quickly discover is just how hard instructing really is. It is very easy to critisise Tossford but lets set the record straight. The instructors here work hard and do their utmost in very difficult circumstances. Just remember we can only teach to the sylabus that is provided to the students we are given.


Those who can........teach!

Very good points raised there Spurdog and like you i am in the same location and find people are always so quick to critise Tossford and the teaching given. We are governed by the powers that be and in the time we are told to teach it in and when you are told you have to take an already inadequate 23 day training package and reduce it to just 15 days and take away the NVQ for the so called future of the modern airforce how can you win , someone plz enlighten me .The simple answer is you cant , it seems that Amm's are here to stay, well at least for the near future and altough we dont have to like the system we have to deal with it. Maybe what the RAF need is people to stop moaning and start helping the Amm's and pasing on the experience they have. Yes this is a very Political correct answer and did this type of argument not ring out when the almighty queue jumping SAC T Q ops arrived ,i think it did, i for one was there to shout from the highest pan light about lack of experience and get some time. As always the fat arsed idiots are reinventing the wheel deep joy!

 

[fat lazy techie]

I'm a fat arsed idiot but have no intention of re-inventing the wheel, because I just can't be arsed.

Not only is the time being spent training up the future being chopped, but the standard is as well. I think you may find some of my previous mentions the fact we will only be able to chop the fcukers through safety issues and not just being a complete retard. It therfore stands to reason that the air farce wish to emply a core manpower of retards who are safe in the training environment, all senior officers take one step forward.

To compound things at least 5 in every course of 16 AMMs will have failed to reach the required standard for AMM on the aptitude test at the AFCO. I think the Tossford motto should read "Striving for adequacy"

 

[Sooty_daz]

AMM's are not all bad

AMM's are not all bad

First of all i am not an AMM, but i think this is nothing more than a rant for the sake of it. At my super wokka base i have encountered some really w@nk AMM's but for the whole they (despite their lack of technical training) seem really keen and if you ask for a volunteer to assist you with a more involved job they are generally the first to volunteer. I think we (fully trained people) should give them a chance based on the fact that they are all individuals

For fooks sake i was sent to Lossie when first out of training to wave at Tonkas for 3 yrs, which required cock all technical knowledge to be a line biatch

 

[3wheeledtechie]

In answer to the title of the thread, IMHO, the fault lies with the Trade Sponsors, and probably higher up, those responsible for personnel and training. The problem is not having a joined up strategy.

Why do I say this? Because Sqns are being asked to make manpower savings and the time and manpower cost of all the OJT required to properly train AMMs has not been calculated. Not only that but the savings they are being asked to generate are based on an incorrect assumption: by completing a Multi-skilling course, or at the outside possessing an X500 annotation means you are fully competant in your second trade.

However there is a difference between manpower and efficiency savings. If a Sqn can safely carry out its operations in a more efficient manner then lets identify it and put better processes in place, be that by means of a Lean event or at a local level (otherwise known as a good idea). However by their very nature Sqns are deployable and need to be flexible to respond so we should avoid paring manpower to the bone.

If I can make a final point it is this: Lean did not make the decision to make manpower cuts, it is merely the tool employed currently by middle management to attempt to deal with the impact of the decisions on manpower cuts made by people in ivory towers.

 

[Sospan]

Not only that but the savings they are being asked to generate are based on an incorrect assumption: by completing a Multi-skilling course, or at the outside possessing an X500 annotation means you are fully competant in your second trade.

It would be interesting to see what percentage of people who have done the Mutiskilling, have the X500 annotation.

 

[3wheeledtechie]

Very fu*king few I suspect. Maybe more on Sqns, but on 2nd line you've got little chance. All of which will shortly put you at a disadvantage promotion-wise if you've not had the opportunity

 

[Late & Tired]

Very fu*king few I suspect. Maybe more on Sqns, but on 2nd line you've got little chance. All of which will shortly put you at a disadvantage promotion-wise if you've not had the opportunity

As a note - the uptake of personnel attaining the X500 has increased dramatically, - quite rightly as you say at 1st line. This is because the Trade Sponsors (along with MSDIT have identified those primary areas as drivers for the Induction Package). In working at 2nd line, YOU ARE NOT disadvantaged from not having undertaken the X500, because there are (only just!!!) not enough front line posts for all techies. - Read 100B-01 Order 2.2.2 Moreover, all personnel will have the option to complete MSAT before Mid 09. The Service realises that not everyone will attain X500 because of work areas - indeed the disadvantage applies to the people in the right area who do not take advantage of the opportunity to attain X500 - F6000 1st RO reports & attitude?