Audits

[Max Reheat]

Can anybody tell me when you had to start keeping receipts for 2 years and not one? I just got audited for every claim I've made in the last 2 years and I've thrown everything out over a year old, or its faded so badly its not worth the paper its written on. Nice of them to tell us instead of just throwing it at us like this.

Also they want proof of authority, don't know how the hell I'm going to get that when the Sqn no longer exists

 

[vim_fuego]

Can anybody tell me when you had to start keeping receipts for 2 years and not one? I just got audited for every claim I've made in the last 2 years and I've thrown everything out over a year old, or its faded so badly its not worth the paper its written on. Nice of them to tell us instead of just throwing it at us like this.

Also they want proof of authority, don't know how the hell I'm going to get that when the Sqn no longer exists

Don't know to be honest...I thought it was 4 years!

The way ahead with this auditting pish is to simply get all your ducks in a row receipt wise i.e. don't swizzle, be attentive to your ROPE form and get as many receipts as poss...staple the lot together and give it to the audit clerk saying 'audit me please!'...she'll take it all off you and in about 6 months finally get around to doing it...you should owe nothing and you'll never see your paperwork again thus reducing your clutter at home!

Incidently we flew a chap tother day who was looking at saving money in the future (very simply put)...I gave it both barrels about the expense of this scheme to administer it and suggested that pretty much all of us would take 10% less rates if the receipting was to go away...instant saving, no brainer...I think one of his eyebrows vaguely moved up a little bit which to me meant he took it in (he gave nothing away all day!)

 

[muttywhitedog]

I gave it both barrels about the expense of this scheme to administer it and suggested that pretty much all of us would take 10% less rates if the receipting was to go away...instant saving, no brainer...I think one of his eyebrows vaguely moved up a little bit which to me meant he took it in (he gave nothing away all day!)

10%?

The blokes on my Sqn would have happily taken around 30% - 40% less for a "No questions asked" policy wrt Subsistance allowance! The general feeling for the the previous USA det was that $66 per day and receipts would be sacrificed for $40 and no receipts.

Multiply those $26 by 250 personnel and then by 30 days and HM Treasury saves $195,000 in a one month exercise!!!

In fact, after every exercise where we have been on this horrible scheme I have guaged this opinion of the lads & lasses and included it in my post-exercise comments to Air Command.

 

[raflad67]

10%?

In fact, after every exercise where we have been on this horrible scheme I have guaged this opinion of the lads & lasses and included it in my post-exercise comments to Air Command.

But will the fekkers take any notice....I doubt it!

 

[vim_fuego]

10%?

The blokes on my Sqn would have happily taken around 30% - 40% less for a "No questions asked" policy wrt Subsistance allowance! The general feeling for the the previous USA det was that $66 per day and receipts would be sacrificed for $40 and no receipts.

Multiply those $26 by 250 personnel and then by 30 days and HM Treasury saves $195,000 in a one month exercise!!!

In fact, after every exercise where we have been on this horrible scheme I have guaged this opinion of the lads & lasses and included it in my post-exercise comments to Air Command.

I wouldn't give up that much...I enjoy my suckling pig washed down with a bucket of Chateau La Fite too much...

I think everyone has been batting on about this to anyone that will listen...The HR guys at this location has been PXR'ing the same...A change of regime may help but I fear its all happening a little too late for me to get any benefit out of it...

 

[KingGuin]

Can anybody tell me when you had to start keeping receipts for 2 years and not one? I just got audited for every claim I've made in the last 2 years and I've thrown everything out over a year old, or its faded so badly its not worth the paper its written on. Nice of them to tell us instead of just throwing it at us like this.

Also they want proof of authority, don't know how the hell I'm going to get that when the Sqn no longer exists

Dude, all receipts should be kept for 7 years - thats standard audit proceedure. If you have no receipts an audit clerk should accept a written declaration that you spent a particular amount on a particular item. In regard to authorities, depsite your Sqn being disbanded, its HR paperwork will be somewhere. Failing that surely you had oppos on det whom havent chucked their claims and will have authorities.

Anyway, every claim for the last 2 years.......hmmmmmm, why?

 

[Sospan]

Dude, all receipts should be kept for 7 years - thats standard audit proceedure. If you have no receipts an audit clerk should accept a written declaration that you spent a particular amount on a particular item. In regard to authorities, depsite your Sqn being disbanded, its HR paperwork will be somewhere. Failing that surely you had oppos on det whom havent chucked their claims and will have authorities.

God forbid a techie to tell a shinny how to do his job, but JSP 752 states individuals are to keep receipts and supporting docs for 24 months. If audited, the unit should then keep the paperwork for 6 years from the date of payment.

 

[Joe_90]

Dude, all receipts should be kept for 7 years - thats standard audit proceedure. If you have no receipts an audit clerk should accept a written declaration that you spent a particular amount on a particular item. In regard to authorities, depsite your Sqn being disbanded, its HR paperwork will be somewhere. Failing that surely you had oppos on det whom havent chucked their claims and will have authorities.

Anyway, every claim for the last 2 years.......hmmmmmm, why?

I'm not shiny bashing here but surely it should be the responsibility of the audit clerk or their minions to chase up things like authorities if a Sqn has been disbanded. The "HR paperwork will be somewhere" suggests that someone with a little bit of knowledge of the system will be able to find it and despite what we are expected to do ourselves on JPA little gems like this should be left to the experts. Saying that when I phoned my audit clerk for advice on a claim I knew was going to get audited she told me she didn't have a clue if I was putting the claim in correctly or where I could find the information, at least she's honest if not competent.

 

[RIGHTHANDSPANKER]

From memory the requirement to keep your receipts for 2 years has been since JPA became live in 06. Authority for travel, detachments etc should be kept along with your receipts incase you are subjected to a full expense audit (all claims over a 2 year period). These are generally called forward by the National Audit Office to ensure our procedures are correct.

Reference the 10% reduction in allowances to go back to rates. I have heard that this was a possibility. However, if rates are re-introduced HMRC require them to have tax and NI contributions deducted.

 

[vim_fuego]

From memory the requirement to keep your receipts for 2 years has been since JPA became live in 06. Authority for travel, detachments etc should be kept along with your receipts incase you are subjected to a full expense audit (all claims over a 2 year period). These are generally called forward by the National Audit Office to ensure our procedures are correct.

Reference the 10% reduction in allowances to go back to rates. I have heard that this was a possibility. However, if rates are re-introduced HMRC require them to have tax and NI contributions deducted.

Rates were/are not earnings so you can't take income tax and national insurance off them...it is money to buy your lunch with i.e. a food allowance.

 

[RIGHTHANDSPANKER]

Rates were/are not earnings so you can't take income tax and national insurance off them...it is money to buy your lunch with i.e. a food allowance.

That is the arguement that was made. HMRC informed us that is why we get actuals, an allowance for what you spend. With rates they are classing this as additonal income as it is a flat rate and there is no need to prove what you have spent the money on.

 

[KingGuin]

God forbid a techie to tell a shinny how to do his job, but JSP 752 states individuals are to keep receipts and supporting docs for 24 months. If audited, the unit should then keep the paperwork for 6 years from the date of payment.

Sospan
you are correct in terms of JSP 752, but note I said "standard audit procedure". Not intending to spilt hairs but as one who has previously conducted audits,I would always recommend retention for 7 years.

 

[KingGuin]

I'm not shiny bashing here but surely it should be the responsibility of the audit clerk or their minions to chase up things like authorities if a Sqn has been disbanded. The "HR paperwork will be somewhere" suggests that someone with a little bit of knowledge of the system will be able to find it and despite what we are expected to do ourselves on JPA little gems like this should be left to the experts. Saying that when I phoned my audit clerk for advice on a claim I knew was going to get audited she told me she didn't have a clue if I was putting the claim in correctly or where I could find the information, at least she's honest if not competent.

Joe, the introduction of JPA saw the onus of responsibility in this regard shift from HR to the individual. Thus to comply with the JSP an indivudal should, when submitting a claim, ensure they have the correct and appropriate supporting paperwork e.g. receipts and authority. If they have not and they are asked for it why should the audit clerk do that job for them?

Authorities are invariably electronic and invariably stored on a shared drive. If the Sqn no longer exists then a call to C4I, not a clerk, will reveal the whereabouts and access rights of legacy records.

Bottom line, the OP shoud have taken more care with his paperwork. In regard to the audit clerk, if one of mine gave you an answer like that you'd find them nailed to the front door of SHQ. Hardly the image our trade (assuming it wasnt a civy) wants to portray.

 

[metimmee]

Sospan
you are correct in terms of JSP 752, but note I said "standard audit procedure". Not intending to spilt hairs but as one who has previously conducted audits,I would always recommend retention for 7 years.

Not intending to split hairs, but how on earth can you advise this? We are forever directed to the JSPs when seeking guidance against policy. You quote some nebulous standard that we cant access or refer to. You know very well that JSP's are tiered down from Govt policy and that every assertion within the JSP will be sanity checked against that policy. I'll go with the JSP thanks.

 

[RIGHTHANDSPANKER]

Not intending to split hairs, but how on earth can you advise this? We are forever directed to the JSPs when seeking guidance against policy. You quote some nebulous standard that we cant access or refer to. You know very well that JSP's are tiered down from Govt policy and that every assertion within the JSP will be sanity checked against that policy. I'll go with the JSP thanks.

Not splitting any hairs but indviduals to keep teir receipts for two years. If it is audited then we keep the paperwork for 7 years which is required for independent auits.

 

[True Blue Jack]

The NAO would like all of us to keep all our receipts for 6 years (it used to be 7 once upon a time) because that is the 'industry' standard. When JPA rolled out somebody made an arbitrary decision that we should keep our receipts for one year and wrote the JSP accordingly. The NAO threw a dizzy fit and after much negotiation settled on a compromise of 2 years. I can't recall exactly when this decision was made but it was more than 2 years ago and was widely briefed at the time, so there really is no excuse for not having the required paperwork available.

Moreover, the requirement to retain receipts and supporting paperwork for every claim has been briefed to death by unit and higher authority staffs since long before JPA went live. As the public purse continues to shrink, we will come under ever increasing scrutiny to ensure money we have claimed is rightfully ours and it is in our own interest to be able to prove it.

Yes, it's a pain, and I too believe the current system costs more money than it saves but it's unlikely to change anytime soon. The conversation VF had with his passenger has been had at every level over the last 4 years yet here we are.

 

[Max Reheat]

The NAO would like all of us to keep all our receipts for 6 years (it used to be 7 once upon a time) because that is the 'industry' standard. When JPA rolled out somebody made an arbitrary decision that we should keep our receipts for one year and wrote the JSP accordingly. The NAO threw a dizzy fit and after much negotiation settled on a compromise of 2 years. I can't recall exactly when this decision was made but it was more than 2 years ago and was widely briefed at the time, so there really is no excuse for not having the required paperwork available.

Moreover, the requirement to retain receipts and supporting paperwork for every claim has been briefed to death by unit and higher authority staffs since long before JPA went live. As the public purse continues to shrink, we will come under ever increasing scrutiny to ensure money we have claimed is rightfully ours and it is in our own interest to be able to prove it.

Yes, it's a pain, and I too believe the current system costs more money than it saves but it's unlikely to change anytime soon. The conversation VF had with his passenger has been had at every level over the last 4 years yet here we are.

Widely briefed to who? I never got told a thing and I don't spend my days perusing JSP's, hell I can barely even find them if I do need one. I go where I'm told when I'm told and admin staff tell us what we can claim when we get back.

As for authorities, I get a phone call on Monday morning saying they need a SNEC to recover a jet from Lyneham, here's your wagon, hotel details and tools, off you go.......

I have no idea what my authority is

 

[R_Squared]

TBJ, I would like to know who this requirement was "widely briefed" to.

Like the roll out of JPA, I must have been on leave for that, as well as all my colleagues.

As it happens, I keep all my paperwork for absolutely everything the RAF has asked me to do, and it's not been in any response to any "brief", but a deep, and quite obviously correct, distrust of everything RAF and shiney.

 

[Sospan]

Sospan
you are correct in terms of JSP 752, but note I said "standard audit procedure". Not intending to spilt hairs but as one who has previously conducted audits,I would always recommend retention for 7 years.

Does this statement still stand for JPA claim receipts and documents? Because at 24 months and one day after the claim I am no longer duty bound to keep them. Therefore a trip to the shredder can be the only answer in my book, or is my rigger brain getting the better of me?

 

[KingGuin]

Not intending to split hairs, but how on earth can you advise this? We are forever directed to the JSPs when seeking guidance against policy. You quote some nebulous standard that we cant access or refer to. You know very well that JSP's are tiered down from Govt policy and that every assertion within the JSP will be sanity checked against that policy. I'll go with the JSP thanks.

The nebulous standard I refer to is in the public domain: quite simply I happen to be acutely aware of it because I am an auditor; sharing it with the forum was an attempt to broaden awareness. I don't except you to know that neither do I expect to know the vagaries of the industry standard which invariably will govern your trade.

The NAO recommends a period of 6 years, the RAF tend to keep accountable paperwork for 7, yet the JSP suggests you as an individual keeps it for 2. You stick to the JSP, I'll stick to the NAO standard then we'll both be happy.