Being sent on a course, but can't afford it?

[MrMasher]

I've never understood the way we have to pay for and claim for being away for service reasons.

We should be able to pop into allowances with our course instructions. Get them there and then to book accomodation (and transport if needed).

Then they should stump up a deposit thereby booking it and they should settle the bill for you room say a day before you leave.

Why on earth should we have to go through the rigmarole of claiming 90% or hammering our credit cards? Then having to submit other claims and all the malarkey when we get back.

And then have the joy of having our pay screwed up for months!

 

[chumpzilla]

I personally agree with Monty. However, if you were sensible, you would get your line manager iinvolved (or even Flt Lt) for abit of weight behind the case. Your boss should be able to either (a.) Move you onto another course or (b.) Sort out the problems with HR.

Don't be afraid to ask your seniors/officers for a bit of assistance, that is part of their job FFS! Alternatively, grow a set, get yourself down there and be polite but forceful with your request. You shouldn't be forced to stump up for a course up front... That's ridiculous...!

 

[Mr_a_mouse]

I personally agree with Monty. However, if you were sensible, you would get your line manager iinvolved (or even Flt Lt) for abit of weight behind the case. Your boss should be able to either (a.) Move you onto another course or (b.) Sort out the problems with HR.

Don't be afraid to ask your seniors/officers for a bit of assistance, that is part of their job FFS! Alternatively, grow a set, get yourself down there and be polite but forceful with your request. You shouldn't be forced to stump up for a course up front... That's ridiculous...!

This is exactly the problem with the system, most of you are now assuming that I am terrible with money and that I'm in deep financial do do when that is completely not the case, this month has simply been atrocious for us and having to stump up, advance or no advance, in the last week of the month £800 is not what I need!

I really don't see why I should involve my line management except as a last resort, after all it does not show in in good light as has been shown by the reaction on here.

When I pop into PSF I'm hoping there will be a little bit of common sense and that they can give me a cash advance, I will go on the course as normal, stick in my receipts as normal and the world will be peachy!

 

[Dave-exfairy]

I know this doesn't help now but let your predicament serve as a reason not to spend every penny you earn but to stash at least 100 quid a month away. That way when any big bills arrive you're in a position to pay without anyone going without.

(I'll admit when I was an SAC I p155ed all my cash away, but I didn't have a family to think of then).

What does an SAC get in his hand these days? 1k? more?

Putting at least 10% away a month will soon build a nice little buffer.

I put over 25% of my income away, not every month but more often than not. (The monster TV was bought cash, no finance and nothing on a Credit card).

This isn't a dig, just try and plan ahead for unexpected events. You'll sleep alot better too.
DT_Xtremez_26:

Sorry Shugs, but I don't see why the OP should pay accom and food out of his own pocket for a course he's being sent on for service reasons.

 

[Shugster]

Sorry Shugs, but I don't see why the OP should pay accom and food out of his own pocket for a course he's being sent on for service reasons.

I agree he shouldn't have to pay a penny. It was when he said a few unexpected bills had left him skint that made me say he should have money set aside for small emergencies.

Don't you sleep better with a few K stashed away in the bank? I do.

1. He shouldn't have to pay a penny of his own cash.
2. He should have some reserve for rainy days. (And not to subsidise the RAF).

 

[busby1971]

Nice post

Nice post

I agree he shouldn't have to pay a penny. It was when he said a few unexpected bills had left him skint that made me say he should have money set aside for small emergencies.

Don't you sleep better with a few K stashed away in the bank? I do.

1. He shouldn't have to pay a penny of his own cash.
2. He should have some reserve for rainy days. (And not to subsidise the RAF).

Nice post shug but you have to realise not everybody is in your situation nor do they have your expediture or attitudes to finance.

If the OP has had a bad month, and it could happen to anybody (in one month a few year back I had three windscreens smash and a break in all in the same month (£200 thank you plus replacement for a kids DVD player) this was when I was paying max childcare and clearing my post xmas expenditure, the cars needed servicing and my annual bills were coming in (repat from overseas malarky), I had little in the way of cash reserves and cash in was less than cash out for a few months.

Today I'm sorted but I try to relate my past to people today.

 

[chiprafp]

, this month has simply been atrocious for us and having to stump up, advance or no advance, in the last week of the month £800 is not what I need!

I really don't see why I should involve my line management except as a last resort, after all it does not show in in good light as has been shown by the reaction on here.

Mate,

Before you get yourself into a position where you listen to advice that could get you in bother, remember this is a virtual crew room filled with faceless people you dont know, seek advice from your unit admin as thats what they are there for and they are accountable for tha advice they give you.

If you explain your situation to them as ytou have in the quote above I really dont see that they will look on you in a bad way, they are there to help and in my experience the majority of shineys will do all they can to see you right. I would also consider getting yuour line management involved especially as the course will I assume benefit them.

Best of luck mate, dont hide your head in the sand confront the problem and you will receive the assistance you need.

 

[BillyBunter]

Yeah recently spent a few weeks in Manchester on the so called daily expenses £27.01 per day , Ill be brutally honest it was a struggle to claim below that and thats without claiming alchohol allowance. We were close to posh area of Manc and mostly we claimed over simply because it was expensive. Most of the lads got away with the extra claim, I got nailed and only got the entitlement I was due.

Its a crap system but if you have to claim more than you are entitled simply becuase its too expensive and you can back that up with reciepts then do it.

 

[muttywhitedog]

There's mutterings afoot on PPrune about the introduction of an unreceipted Flat Rate for an overnight stay wherever you are in the world.

http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/379504-return-rates.html

Please God, this time let it be true....

 

[Sniffer]

Yeah recently spent a few weeks in Manchester on the so called daily expenses £27.01 per day , Ill be brutally honest it was a struggle to claim below that and thats without claiming alchohol allowance. We were close to posh area of Manc and mostly we claimed over simply because it was expensive. Most of the lads got away with the extra claim, I got nailed and only got the entitlement I was due.

Its a crap system but if you have to claim more than you are entitled simply becuase its too expensive and you can back that up with reciepts then do it.

Fcuk me, I lived there for 25 years and never realised that there was a posh area!

Surely everwhere has a Witherspoons?

 

[Combat Womble]

I have alot of sympathy with Mr Mouse. Just before I got married my cars' head gasket blew so I borrowed the misses car, the gear box broke. We both needed cars to get to work so we had to but two cars using the money we had saved for the wedding and pay for the wedding and honeymoon on credit. This put us in difficulty for months afterwards. Things happen that you have no control of, so: Mr Mouse ignore all the 'you should be saving' comments that imply that your situation is of you own making.
The point is no-one should have to pay up front for anything. Its unfair to expect anyone to stump up cash and wait for the money to be paid. For starters it costs you money (interest), it also puts pressure on your family budget. I claim advances for everything (even IE - if I can get anyway with it). How have we got into a situation where Airman paying upfront is exceptable? Stick you your guns and say you want an cash advance or your not going. Speak to the Padre as well, you should be able to tell him your exact situation and he will fight your corner without any come back.
Good luck Mr Mouse.

 

[Sniffer]

He wont have to stump out up front. He can claim an advance and no one is disputing that. I'm sorry I just dont see the problem.

 

[Combat Womble]

If Mr Mouse has had a difficult month if could be over his overdraft, if the advance is paid into that account he wont be able to get all of the money for his hotel.

 

[Mr_a_mouse]

He wont have to stump out up front. He can claim an advance and no one is disputing that. I'm sorry I just dont see the problem.

Ok so most people have an overdraft facilty of £100, let's imagine a scenario where someone has had to (rightly or wrongly) had to go over that by £500 so that is now at -£600 at it's only the middle of the month.

An advance of £800 would only take the balance up to £200 and that is without considering any bank charges that may be levied against him.

This problem could easily happen to the SAC on level 3 earning just over £1K a month to the WO who has 3 kids. an unemployed wife and who is struggling to feed them all on his £2.5K.

Sniffer> Are you an adminer? I can't see how you can't see there is a problem here.

 

[shoutingwind]

He wont have to stump out up front. He can claim an advance and no one is disputing that. I'm sorry I just dont see the problem.

then shut up and stop posting on this thread! If Mr M has a problem, you saying there isn't anything wrong is not helping or in anyway constructive. Get your head out of your jacksie...

Mr M, I too think you should talk to the pardre, and admin. Pardres will move montains if they have to to help you out (and if your units admin is like mine old unit, blow steam about how difficult they make life! LOL).

Good Luck

 

[muttywhitedog]

Sniffer, you are quite correct that the OP doesnt have to pay up front. There is a JPA advance, and even an EPIC available if he/she is short of funds prior to going on a service related course. As others have said, the HOTAC can be paid for by GPC, and it is not mandatory to spend the whole £27.01 or more per day.

The OP has asked for help - help has been given, but others have just come on to whinge how bad the "system" is and generally have a pop at TG17 because they perceive we are all to blame for anything that happened...ever.

The fact is, the JPA advance system is far better than the old-style advance through allowances/BACS then having to manually submit a F1771 and wait for that to be paid, then have to go back to the cashier to pay the difference back.

OP - Here's some advice from a scribbly who has also done an accounts tour...

Get a JPA Advance for the whole whack of the food element. Your IE element of £5 per night will make the size of your claim larger than the amount of the advance. You should not claim for an advance of IE.

Either get a JPA Advance for the HOTAC, or better still get your unit travel cell to pay for the B&B on the company card.

Enjoy your course - it could be worse, you could be on a course at a military unit and be charged for your food & accom!!

 

[Mr_a_mouse]

Sniffer, you are quite correct that the OP doesnt have to pay up front. There is a JPA advance, and even an EPIC available if he/she is short of funds prior to going on a service related course. As others have said, the HOTAC can be paid for by GPC, and it is not mandatory to spend the whole £27.01 or more per day.

The OP has asked for help - help has been given, but others have just come on to whinge how bad the "system" is and generally have a pop at TG17 because they perceive we are all to blame for anything that happened...ever.



The fact is, the JPA advance system is far better than the old-style advance through allowances/BACS then having to manually submit a F1771 and wait for that to be paid, then have to go back to the cashier to pay the difference back.

OP - Here's some advice from a scribbly who has also done an accounts tour...

Get a JPA Advance for the whole whack of the food element. Your IE element of £5 per night will make the size of your claim larger than the amount of the advance. You should not claim for an advance of IE.

Either get a JPA Advance for the HOTAC, or better still get your unit travel cell to pay for the B&B on the company card.

Enjoy your course - it could be worse, you could be on a course at a military unit and be charged for your food & accom!!

I agree with mostly what you are saying however I do feel that in certain situations such as this the JPA advance system is wrong, it would be nice to know there is an 'easy' backup in place without having to go through OC PSF/padre/line management, yes it's a bit of an awkward situation but not the end of the world.

Thanks for all the help and advice guys n gals

 

[muttywhitedog]

Are you on a fishing trip here?

The JPA system involves YOU and a PC. No Padres/OC PSFs/SSAFA/Line Management.

 

[Mr_a_mouse]

Are you on a fishing trip here?

The JPA system involves YOU and a PC. No Padres/OC PSFs/SSAFA/Line Management.

If I was on a fishing trip I'd be having a lot more to say about PSF

Yes the JPA system is fine if you have sufficient funds in your account but unless I'm very much mistaken there is no provision for when an individual encounters difficulty with his finances.

 

[Sniffer]

then shut up and stop posting on this thread! If Mr M has a problem, you saying there isn't anything wrong is not helping or in anyway constructive. Get your head out of your jacksie...

Mr M, I too think you should talk to the pardre, and admin. Pardres will move montains if they have to to help you out (and if your units admin is like mine old unit, blow steam about how difficult they make life! LOL).

Good Luck

First of all wind your neck in. If and when I get told by a mod not to post then maybe I'l listen, until then I've got as much right as anyone else.

Secondly, I don't have my head in my jacksie, I am of the understanding that the RAF is not a personal finance company and is not here to subsidise others poor money management.

Yes the RAF is sending him on a course which could incur cost. However to ensure this doesn't happen there is the advance system. Whos fault is it that if the advance gets paid into the OP's account, the bank will recoup it? It is the RAF's.... I think not!

Tell you what next time I'm a bit fcuking skint I'll go and have a cry on the padres shoulder.

I wonder how many visits he will get when pay as you dine comes in and people dont have the cash to feed themselves for the month, because their car has broken down etc etc.

Learn to manage your money better. Thats my bottom line. Harsh I know but the line has to be drawn somewhere!