Can TG3 Adapt to TG4?

[JAFAD666]

Top post Mug? ... DT_Xtremez_30:

 

[wolfy]

As for the dross being weeded out. The dross stay and bum around with very little comeback. The younger talented people are leaving or tell me they plan to leave at their 9 yrs after they get some experience, qualifications some civvie contacts and a deposit. They don't see it as a career anymore.

I agree with much of what you say, apart from it took longer to teach the comes guy Radar than the other way round::

But do you not think certain places that are hot and sandy have anything to do with guys wanting to get out earlier too.

 

[CIS Tech]

Hot and sandy doesn't bother me, done plenty time out there and that's the sort of sh1t I signed up for.

Mind you, done some pretty cushty dets too. DT_Xtremez_28:

That said, a 23 yr old Cpl (TG3) once said "if they send me to Iraq I'll PVR". C0ck.

 

[Mug?]

Swings and roundabouts

Swings and roundabouts

Loads or reasons....
Short OOA turn around times are just one

No decent postings
No interesting jobs
Booking jobs out to civvies
Waiting for civvies to turn up and do what you used to be quite capable of doing
Calling the civies back to do it again when it still isn't working
DCSA (as was) ATLAS, Paradigm, VT merlin, Cogent

and lastly
ADs/AFs thinking it took us longer to learn Radar/waveguide theory than it did for them to understand logic gates and HDB3 encodingDT_Xtremez_15:

 

[trotterdave]

I think our trade and many others went balls up when we started treating the RAF as a business. We now have mission statements, LEANing, customers, users....ffs isn't this meant to be military?? How can you expect a young new recruit who has had the idea of a 'customer' drilled into his head since day one rather than a FS, SGT etc be expected to know what is to become of him?
Also stuff like budgets in the RAF, come on. I know we have a responsibility to the taxpayer to be accountable and efficient, but when you have to turn around to your 'customer' and say, sorry I cant fix your problem at the moment because the budget doesnt allow me to order your part...please though could you fill in this customer satisfaction form in the mean time?
Now thats where we started to go wrong. I say bring back the old school where as a lower rank you did as were told, not dictating what is to be done, or moaning when your told to do something, or saying 'I cant do that because theres no risk assessment, not part of my job' attitude.
*Rant over*
Sorry I know this might be a little off subject, but if you get the basic point of it, you will see that this trade 'down scaling' has been going on since we started acting like a plc, rather than a fighting force!!

ps. (By the way I'm no old school fossil, in fact I'm one of the relative new recruits (6 years) who can see where this Farce is going)
pps. Sorry to you actual old fossils for calling you old fossils in publicDT_Xtremez_15:

 

[mad_collie]

and lastly
ADs/AFs thinking it took us longer to learn Radar/waveguide theory than it did for them to understand logic gates and HDB3 encodingDT_Xtremez_15:

That is the funniest thing I've read on here for a while.DT_Xtremez_31: Us ADs were always taught that TC stood for Thick Cnut.DT_Xtremez_15:

 

[MAINJAFAD]

That is the funniest thing I've read on here for a while.DT_Xtremez_31: Us ADs were always taught that TC stood for Thick Cnut.DT_Xtremez_15:

While on TMT1 back in 1988, I heard 'That you can't get thicker than a TC Fitter' was the AF play on the same topic. Quite true as well, seeing that when I did trade training, 1T Block were giving guys up to 3 resits after failing exams, totally unlike what was going on in 2(T) under CT B**ks. As for AD's not knowning anything other than Valves, I've one thing to say about that................

SSR 750!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[crap_prop]

Dont mention the SSR word again please MainJaffad i have only just come out of years of therapy to forget about that bloody thing. And as for the TC / AF, AD devide I remember a certain TC instructor sat in on our original assim course back in 94 taking the **** out of us on the course who were on Rapier squadrons. Every few minutes he kept going "whoosh bang" he thought he was the dogs b@@l@cks until at the end of the course he had a call from the drafter, he thought it was his Rhine D posting, when he came back in his face was a picture, he'd been posted to 27 sqn at Leuchars. Laugh I nearly pi@@ed my self.
Off thread a bit there sorry. He adapted pr Pvr'd I forget now.

 

[ckinfi]

If the TG3 side of the RAF is shrinking why have we not allowed natural wasteage and shrinkage to swallow the overmanning and left the two seperate trades alone. This would have allowed for the TG3 personnel to have a career that you expect when sigining up and the poor new guys with some control over what remains of their chosen career. As it stands now TG3 has no promotion prospects and the new guys coming can expect to reach the dizzy heights of SAC for their entire 22 years service (on the lower pay band if the streaming to IM remains 100%).

 

[PVRisthefuture]

As with all good ideas dreamed up from the bottom, you are ignored. Unless you are an idiot Wg Cmdr put in charge of something you know nothing about, how can you possibly be qualified to manage the careers and lifes of thousands? Silly billy.

They really should have roadshows and ask (tell) the tradesmen what their plans are both implementing them. It'd save egg on their face, and perhaps slow down the "changes for changes sake" mentality the raf has got at the moment.

 

[mad_collie]

From a few of the posts over the last day, us TG3 didn't adapt to being Eng Tech El, and that happened in 93/94. There is no fecking chance of us adapting to amalgamating with operators if we struggled to combine with our other tech trades.DT_Xtremez_35:

 

[kev827]

in answer to the orginal topic, yes we can..and in many cases already have. having read the coments by most on here there is and always will be this ill feeling between the trades as long as people want it to be there....training has always caused arguments between 3&11 we did this you did that..its all in the past..why people can just leave it there i'll never know..we must move on as a trade or we will contiune to get bogged down. The one thing that no-one has seemed to pick on is the long term future of the trade..yes it may appear at the moment that ex tg11 have the better end if the sh**y stick but what about in x-number of years when most of the IM jobs will be passed out to civies..there will always be the legacy kit and equipments that are used on Ops that will need to be fixed..i still can't see Joe public in Iraq changing a waveguide...I have no doubts that in maybe even 10 years when the majority of the trade are OM that joined as TG4 we will fold into a single stream no more operator and tech just operator/Tech a person trained to use and fix the kit...just a thought.


Oh why does everyone call Cosford...Tossford??? Its not that bad..i'd rather go there to do course than say blandford or somewhere in wales..now theres any idea

 

[PVRisthefuture]

training has always caused arguments between 3&11 we did this you did that..its all in the past..why people can just leave it there i'll never know..we must move on as a trade

We are not the same trade. Different number, better pay for IM, shi**er stick for us.

Oh why does everyone call Cosford...Tossford??? Its not that bad..i'd rather go there to do course than say blandford or somewhere in wales..now theres any idea

Cause it is toss, stuck their for weeks at a time, nobody there at weekends (it takes 8+ hours to get back for me), mobile reception is pants, tv reception is poo, blocks are cack, internet is slow and dosen't work half the time, mess is crap, flowerpot looks and feels like a prison(oi, jackets off inside.. WHAT??), 45p a cup of coffee WTF? Better than blandford, maybe. One good thing, it is reunion and gossip central.

 

[MAINJAFAD]

Oh why does everyone call Cosford...Tossford??? Its not that bad..i'd rather go there to do course than say blandford or somewhere in wales..now theres any idea

Because compared to Locking, it is Toss, pure and simple.

 

[almostaCIV]

Of course T33 can adapt and change to meet the challenges of TG4, let’s face it, it does not matter what trade you are in someone above is looking at scr*wing you over if it will help them.

But it will take time and just consider how long ago the 3 ground trades where ‘merged’ and you can still fine the old enmity out there (Ok mainly from you ADs and AFs DT_Xtremez_42: )
All will get there, and if TG11 think the TG3s have a chip on their shoulders over this, then my only answer is tough live with it, it will pass like all things.

But then I followed the instructions from all the meetings and briefs that go around
“ Blah Blah If you don’t like what we are doing to the AirFarce then leave Blah Blah” so like a good little worker I have done just that, got a new job , making more money, same amount of ‘politics’ but at least I can tell the boss what I really think of his Ideas and can only get fired!!DT_Xtremez_28:

 

[mad_collie]

But then I followed the instructions from all the meetings and briefs that go around “ Blah Blah If you don’t like what we are doing to the AirFarce then leave Blah Blah” so like a good little worker I have done just that, got a new job , making more money, same amount of ‘politics’ but at least I can tell the boss what I really think of his Ideas and can only get fired!!DT_Xtremez_28:

Well done mate, I'll be close behind you. It's a shame that things have got to this stage where they are saying that.

IMHO, I think the whole way they have handled the TG3/4/11 thing has just been a cunning way of saving a few K on redundancies. They are needed in both trades, at different levels. What the muppets have done is p1ss everybody off across the board, hoping that the amount of people that will leave by being p1ssed off will level the playing field.

Unfortunately they have brought everything to a halt, and the amount of disaffected bods around now will grind what is left (both Tg3 & 11) down to just the d1ckheads that are scared to go outside.

 

[pilgrimshuffler]

KEV827, i cannot but agree more with everything that you said, it is the kind of response that i was looking for when i orginally accidentally opened the thread. There will always be a rivalary and i hope there will always be a bit of banter as it makes for interesting t-bars, but as you say we cannot get bogged down in all that **** as the powers that be will find our civvy friends way's in. Some of the replys in the thread have been really venemous and it has been mainly TG3 that have, most probably because they have really been given a ****ty deal but you have to move on, and i suppose if you don't like it they will always give you the same answer "heres the door". I have many TG3 friends and i and the rest of my TG11 colleagues feel genuinely sorry for them.
I can't see though how you can put the blame for the demise of TG3 squarley at the door of KW, he saw the commcens where going years ago, and that the "it's nakered, chuck it" frame of thinking was being applying years ago.
TG11 has had it good for the past 4 years but it's all swings and roundabouts and i'm sure in 5 years we'll be slagging off every tom dick and harry.

 

[kev827]

oi, jackets off inside.. WHAT??), 45p a cup of coffee WTF?

The jackets thing is a standards topic..don't forget as SAC's and above you are expected to set examples to the AC's. We all know that training units don't represent that "real Airforce" The younger guys and girls in the building are only just through the door thats why they have the rules as they do. I can recall arriving at Cosford for my fitters course and being told that you are now as low as a AC despite being an SAC. Its easier to treat everyone the same rather than having different rules for different ranks. You just smile and wave just smile and wave..play the game and leave thats all you can do...when i did my assim course we had to march along side the basics as Cpl's and I was perm staff....which meant going to work dropping my bags in my office walking down to the muster and then marching back..its just the way things are..at the end of the day it doesn't effect me getting paid to just do it...i am sure that people would soon get Pi**ed off if they started to make all PET students march in during the morning but they don't...

45p for a cup of tea..simple answer bring your own tea bag/coffee, milk and sugar and use one of the FREE hot water boilers that are around the place...problem solved

 

[PVRisthefuture]

oi, jackets off inside.. WHAT??), 45p a cup of coffee WTF?

Standards? The second, and I mean the second they leave tossford, it's learn and dump. I'm sure you've heard that phrase before... If i'm cold, the jacket is on. Simple, why remove it? Rules for rules sake? Bollox. As for coffee, yes sure, i'll just cart around all the brew making kit in the world because tossford is a bloddy rip off! Do you deny it?

Noticed that you conveniently missed out all the other other toss things i mentioned about tossford.

 

[kev827]

Standards? The second, and I mean the second they leave tossford, it's learn and dump. I'm sure you've heard that phrase before... If i'm cold, the jacket is on. Simple, why remove it? Rules for rules sake? Bollox. As for coffee, yes sure, i'll just cart around all the brew making kit in the world because tossford is a bloddy rip off! Do you deny it?

Noticed that you conveniently missed out all the other other toss things i mentioned about tossford.

I take it that you are cold, even though you are wearing a long sleve shirt + jumper? If thats the case STEP one put a vest on under the shirt STEP 2 visit the DOC's fast as you might have some serious illness...when you say its learn and dump when you leave Cosford what do you mean..you can tell me that you never use any of the skills/Knowladge that you learnt in training to do your job... The other things are out of the controll of the Radio School, do you mean that every other camp has better mobile phone links and tv reception???

How/what would you do to make things better, despite what people might think, the OC and senior officers/NCO's in the building are always trying to improve things please let me know your thoughts and I'll hand them in on Monday... be we are getting of topic..

I still say that YES TG3 can adapt and already has....