DHE - arses!

[vim_fuego]

I understand your rationale regarding the biscuits however, this amounts to greasing their palms do do the job they should be doing in the first place, should we encourage this?

You gotta do what you gotta do to get your family the best deal available I'm afraid...I also had to fein being friendly as they bantered about the awful places that were going until they eventually fessed up with the goods...I don't believe it was the way things should have happened in this case but I'm a realist...

Sorry, but I don't agree.

2 DAYS!!!!

Thats all we are talking about, it should be simple to sort something out.

I don't advocate accepting everything that DE do, far from it, but for the sake of sorting out something for the "2 DAYS" just get on with it (man up!). I would!!

And no, we shouldn't expect a poor service from DE, however being offered a qtr 2 days after your posting date surely doesnt count as poor service?

I would want my quarter (which I never need again thankfully) at least two weeks before my posting in date so the house can be settled in, kids in school and wife feeling happy before I start a new job where I am expected to be happy and productive...

So no...2 days is not acceptable.

 

[True Blue Jack]

In the ideal world, we would all want to move our families before we start work at our next unit. But before we slam DE for not doing this in the OP's case it is worth remembering that there is a chronic shortage of SFA everywhere and that DE cannot magically create availability.

We could go on and on about why there is such a shortage, and to my mind that is the direction in which this thread should be heading but we are not going to resolve that particular problem here and now.

For the record, I take up my next post in 15 days and DE have not yet been able to allocate me a quarter. I am likely to get a house 6 weeks or so after I start work so believe me when I say I think 2 days is not worth complaining about. If the OP considers the alternatives, e.g., being quartered at a nearby unit (Digby?); getting SSFA in the rough end of Boston, etc., then he will realise that his is a problem that many people would not mind having.

 

[Tubby]

Let's put in this in perspective, you and I may have to spend some time away from our families; Corporal Curley's wife and baby son will not be seeing him again.

Your a d!ck. Too many people are using snide little guilt trips like this to get one over somebody who is having a little moan. Wether the moan is justified or not it's pretty fcuking crass to drag up stuff like that.

On antoher thread about living out at Tossford we had a warrior comparing tents in Afghan to wanting a decent place to kip and pointing out that the OP was a bad ba5tard for wanting something better. Is it so bad for some people to want to have a reasonable standard of living. We have been posting people all over the place for 90+ years, a little efficiency from all that experience wouldn't go amiss would it.

Or am I wasting precious energy typing this when poor cnuts like the guy below can't even clap never mind type properly and I should therefore feel so ashamed I can.

http://http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/tyne/hi/people_and_places/history/newsid_8338000/8338234.stm

 

[metimmee]

In the ideal world, we would all want to move our families before we start work at our next unit. But before we slam DE for not doing this in the OP's case it is worth remembering that there is a chronic shortage of SFA everywhere and that DE cannot magically create availability.

We could go on and on about why there is such a shortage, and to my mind that is the direction in which this thread should be heading but we are not going to resolve that particular problem here and now.

For the record, I take up my next post in 15 days and DE have not yet been able to allocate me a quarter. I am likely to get a house 6 weeks or so after I start work so believe me when I say I think 2 days is not worth complaining about. If the OP considers the alternatives, e.g., being quartered at a nearby unit (Digby?); getting SSFA in the rough end of Boston, etc., then he will realise that his is a problem that many people would not mind having.

I don't buy the "I'm happy to be shafted by this private company, so therefore you should be" argument. If they are contracted to provide the FQ in time, then they should. Happy to be corrected with a JSP ref that says they dont have to provide FQ in time.

Private firms like this, will use customer apathy and the unwillingness to complain to increase their margins if you let them.

 

[MontyPlumbs]

Your a d!ck. Too many people are using snide little guilt trips like this to get one over somebody who is having a little moan. Wether the moan is justified or not it's pretty fcuking crass to drag up stuff like that.

On antoher thread about living out at Tossford we had a warrior comparing tents in Afghan to wanting a decent place to kip and pointing out that the OP was a bad ba5tard for wanting something better. Is it so bad for some people to want to have a reasonable standard of living. We have been posting people all over the place for 90+ years, a little efficiency from all that experience wouldn't go amiss would it.

Or am I wasting precious energy typing this when poor cnuts like the guy below can't even clap never mind type properly and I should therefore feel so ashamed I can.

http://http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/tyne/hi/people_and_places/history/newsid_8338000/8338234.stm

Top post mate. I find all this 'war zone' talk to be duller than an in-flight magazine produced by Air Belgium. Who gives a fcuk what ops you've been on etc - news flash guys - it's your job to go to the nasty places! The clue is in the title 'Armed Forces' not the Womans Auxillary Balloon Corps!

It shouldn't be used as a defence when someone feels angry due to something that has happened during a normal UK environment. The phrase 'man up' is often used to try to get people to accept the ****ty end of the stick, just because 'it's always been like that' or 'it's happened to me loads of times'.

Obviously, I understand that sometimes people expect too much or don't understand what life in the Forces is like, but I think by and large most people just want to get the best for themselves.

 

[MrMasher]

If they are contracted to provide the FQ in time, then they should. Happy to be corrected with a JSP ref that says they dont have to provide FQ in time.
.

I don't believe they are contracted to provide a qtr by your posting date. Mind you, I'm happy for you to provide me with a JSP reference that says they have to.......

 

[Climebear]

I don't buy the "I'm happy to be shafted by this private company, so therefore you should be" argument. If they are contracted to provide the FQ in time, then they should. Happy to be corrected with a JSP ref that says they dont have to provide FQ in time.

Private firms like this, will use customer apathy and the unwillingness to complain to increase their margins if you let them.

I'm not sure where you're coming from here. Defence Estates are not a private company, they are part of the MOD. Like every other part of the MOD (indeed Government) there is not enough money to do everything. I am sure that DE would love to have enough housing stock in exactly the right place to avoid anyone waiting for an FQ; but where is the money going to come from? Should they stop the refurbishment programme to build a few more houses? Or, perhaps the MOD could stop the modernisation of Barrack Blocks to fund more houses just to stop the inconvenience of a married service person having to wait a little while for a FQ.

This is not new, even before the running of the FQ estate was taken away from each Service there were waiting lists. IIRC under the old RAF rules an individuals place on the waiting list was governed by points awarded for, amongst other things, length of Service; so the more junior were always disadvantaged.

There is nothing the the JSP that says that DE have to give someone an FQ on or before their posting date; indeed it acknowledges that this cannot happen all of the time.

I'm sure that DE would love to please all of the people all of the time; however, like many of us in the MOD they just don't have resources to enable them to do it.

I'd also like to be riding around on a Ducati; but I can't afford it.

That said, there is nothing that can excuse some people's poor attitude to the people they should provide service too. That is reason to complain - not the fact that you suffer a mild inconvenience of a couple of days wait for an FQ.

 

[Realist78]

Vim, I agree with you as per my original post on this, why should we man up. I understand your rationale regarding the biscuits however, this amounts to greasing their palms do do the job they should be doing in the first place, should we encourage this? Would you do this with the dentist or MO to get a better service? Before everyone jumps on the bandwagon, I realise it is only a packet of biscuits but there is a principal here. I further realise this was the way we used to do business...shame our org has been eroded so much it can't/doesn't continue.

In that case, stick to your principles and get occasionally sh1t service as a result.DT_Xtremez_09:

 

[metimmee]

I'm not sure where you're coming from here. Defence Estates are not a private company, they are part of the MOD. Like every other part of the MOD (indeed Government) there is not enough money to do everything. I am sure that DE would love to have enough housing stock in exactly the right place to avoid anyone waiting for an FQ; but where is the money going to come from? Should they stop the refurbishment programme to build a few more houses? Or, perhaps the MOD could stop the modernisation of Barrack Blocks to fund more houses just to stop the inconvenience of a married service person having to wait a little while for a FQ.

This is not new, even before the running of the FQ estate was taken away from each Service there were waiting lists. IIRC under the old RAF rules an individuals place on the waiting list was governed by points awarded for, amongst other things, length of Service; so the more junior were always disadvantaged.

There is nothing the the JSP that says that DE have to give someone an FQ on or before their posting date; indeed it acknowledges that this cannot happen all of the time.

I'm sure that DE would love to please all of the people all of the time; however, like many of us in the MOD they just don't have resources to enable them to do it.

I'd also like to be riding around on a Ducati; but I can't afford it.

That said, there is nothing that can excuse some people's poor attitude to the people they should provide service too. That is reason to complain - not the fact that you suffer a mild inconvenience of a couple of days wait for an FQ.

Nice reply and happy to be corrected about the status of DE. If the JSP doesnt set limits then 2 days isnt long. I had to wait a month, but I was offered a toilet which I refused...pushing me to the bottom of the list.

 

[Climebear]

Your a d!ck. Too many people are using snide little guilt trips like this to get one over somebody who is having a little moan. Wether the moan is justified or not it's pretty fcuking crass to drag up stuff like that.

On antoher thread about living out at Tossford we had a warrior comparing tents in Afghan to wanting a decent place to kip and pointing out that the OP was a bad ba5tard for wanting something better. Is it so bad for some people to want to have a reasonable standard of living. We have been posting people all over the place for 90+ years, a little efficiency from all that experience wouldn't go amiss would it.

Or am I wasting precious energy typing this when poor cnuts like the guy below can't even clap never mind type properly and I should therefore feel so ashamed I can.

http://http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/tyne/hi/people_and_places/history/newsid_8338000/8338234.stm

You're most probably right, I may well be a d!ck.

Yes, like many people I've been on ops and on ops life is different; I have been many places, lost friends, and done many things I would rather have avoided including picking up body parts of a family murdered for their hazelnut harvest and comforting a young family whose parents have been killed as they were being burnt out of their home during ethnic cleansing. Being deployed at the moment I understand the true extent of the butcher's bill that lies behind the casualty statistics, and are am in awe of the daily acts of heroism exhibited by many from all Services and many countries.

I accept that back in the UK is different. Yet here I have had colleagues murdered by PIRA, lost friends in training accidents, and seen engineers work themselves into the ground trying to get aircraft serviceable without decent support or proper recognition. I have also seen RAF personnel and others coping with incredible pain and anguish quietly and with a personal dignity that is truly humbling to observe.

I don't pretend to be different, as MontyPlums rightly says, it goes with the territory of service in the Armed Forces.

Check out my posts on other threads, I try in the vast majority of cases to help people out who have been wronged by the system or individuals in a constructive way.

I also note that there is another thread running that Briton's are becoming too self obsessed. The majority are in agreement with the article and are decrying many in civil society. And yet, I note the many references to 'I want' and 'it's an entitlement' on this thread and just wonder if this self obsession is creeping into our Service too.

Please forgive me if our perspectives on life differ (I have weird tastes in music too) and understand that having to wait 2 days for an FQ doesn't score too highly on my 'give-a-sh!t ometer'.

 

[TeaWhiteNonePlease]

He has been given some very sound advice by some experienced people. Yes, they way he has been treated should not be accepted and he has been advised how he could complain.

Primarily though, TeaWhiteNonePlease has gone off on one because, rather like a spoilt child, he did not get what he wanted when he wanted. So he has to wait 2 whole days to get an FQ - big deal!

He needs to have is expectations realigned and have his 'problem' put into context, not his ego massaged with lots of 'oh, aren't the nasty people bad' comments.

It does not help anyone, to make mountains out of something that doesn't even warrant molehill status in life.

Hey, come on now, my gripe isn't that I have to wait 2 whole days, its the way I've been treat, I posted this to see who else has been messed around by these mugs.

A few of you have totally missed my point here, I'm not complaining because of the 2 days - It's not ideal but I can work around it, but rather because when I've been trying to speak with them for some help they have been unpleasant to deal with. I've never had to move units before and thought i'd see what the general consensus is. I know there are plenty of people who have moved way more than me and I know there are people who have been messed around also, I was trying to gauge some insight into the whole process.

Thanks to the few who have given me some good advice.

I'm going to deal with this the way KinGuin has advised me and I will be making a formal complaint against them regardless of the final outcome.

 

[Climebear]

For what's it's worth, my advice would be to echo KingGuin would be to follow the complaints procedure in the JSP. Do not be emotive (even though you may feel like it) stick to the facts what was said to you, what the JSP says should happen, and what actually happened. It I were you I'd avoid reference to the allocation date being 2 days after your posting it would only detract from your real grievance, as it appears to have done on this post. I would also avoid casting any aspersions against individuals just state what was said, in what manner, and how that made you and your wife feel (this is not the right occasion to be calling people mugs or arses)

Check what the timescales are for submitting a complaint and ensure that you stick to them. I would also advise that you get someone to independent to read over your complaint before you submit it.

If WO 3(F) Sqn is who I think it is (KingGuin can confirm) then, he is an excellent WO who can help you with the process. Failing that an approach to the Stn DE point of contact (usually either in PSF or the SCSO) usually helps. It also enables the Station to get a full picture that could enable their action if (as it would seem) the level of service across the board is below acceptable standards.



And finally, if moving in during your arrival week is really going to cause you an insurmountable amount of grief, then you could always speak to your Chf Clk as they can, if the gaining unit agrees, arrange for an airman/woman's posting to be either bought forward or delayed slightly. (Be aware that most Chf Clks will usually be even more cynical than some of the people on this thread, so you'll have to think very carefully about your justification)

 

[TeaWhiteNonePlease]

For what's it's worth, my advice would be to echo KingGuin would be to follow the complaints procedure in the JSP. Do not be emotive (even though you may feel like it) stick to the facts what was said to you, what the JSP says should happen, and what actually happened. It I were you I'd avoid reference to the allocation date being 2 days after your posting it would only detract from your real grievance, as it appears to have done on this post. I would also avoid casting any aspersions against individuals just state what was said, in what manner, and how that made you and your wife feel (this is not the right occasion to be calling people mugs or arses)

Check what the timescales are for submitting a complaint and ensure that you stick to them. I would also advise that you get someone to independent to read over your complaint before you submit it.

If WO 3(F) Sqn is who I think it is (KingGuin can confirm) then, he is an excellent WO who can help you with the process. Failing that an approach to the Stn DE point of contact (usually either in PSF or the SCSO) usually helps. It also enables the Station to get a full picture that could enable their action if (as it would seem) the level of service across the board is below acceptable standards

You see, this is all I wanted.

Obviously when I speak to them and complain against them I won't be using forum language, I do know better than that.

I may have mentioned the 2 days in my post, but it certainly isn't the only thing I mention. My main thing is their attitude towards me and my wife when we have done nothing more than enquire. I was just frustrated by the letter we received and let frustration do the typing.

Since I've had time to settle and take stock of my situation - which I know is nothing compared to many, many others - I'm really not happy with their service.

I will be trying to get them to move the date, failing that I will be seeing about starting a week later and using my relocation leave rather than staying in transit or wherever, since moving in during my arrival week really will be a pain.

Then after that I will be formally complaining, I don't see why I should put up with poor service.

 

[monobrow]

Closed at the request of the original poster.