Did you actually get a pay rise when promoted to Cpl? (Higher Pay band 7 or 8 only)

[bug_bloke]

This is a question for those who where lucky enough to get promoted to Cpl while on pay band 7 or 8. If you weren’t, sorry this post will not help you, but please leave input if you feel it may help.

Because SAC/JT higher pay bands 7 and 8 are exactly the same as Cpl pay bands 1 and 2 an anomaly occurs if you were promoted close to your pay band increment date.

Fill in the yellow parts of the excel spreadsheet to find out if you got the minimum 2% annual pay rise set out by the Armed Forces Pay review Body.

Just a couple of rules to help make sure it works.

• It doesn’t work if promoted before April 2003.
• Ensure that your SAC/JT due increment date is after your promotion date.

Be aware that the annual pay quoted is for the 365 days following your promotion, and not the RAF's quoted annual salary. It also does not include the tax increase during that 365 days.

Once you have found if you have been shafted with you pay upon promotion, decide if you care or not and reply on this post to discuss what can be done.

If no-one cares, when I will stop caring and I’ll start being happy about it.

 

[bug_bloke]

What would you like to know?

I'm new to this site and wanted to use the collective power of the many techies what use it to see if I am the only one who was shafted upon promotion.

 

[SirSaltyHelmet]

If you on promotion are at level 7 or 8 then you go to the highest band above that, but you have to go up by at least 2%. Happens to everyone.

So in your case you may go to a Level 3 Cpl

 

[bug_bloke]

Thanks for the comment SirSaltyHelmet,

At first this is what everyone thinks and you are right it does happen to everyone, except higher pay bands 7 and 8. In this case you get promoted to a pay band which is EXACTLY the same value as what you would have got on your increment date had you not been promoted. Have annoyed would you be if promoted a day before your increment date which would have taken you to the same pay had you not been promoted. It like promotion without the pay rise.

Take a look at my spread sheet in the zipped attachment.

 

[Disillusioned]

I got promtoted from JT-Cpl 2 weeks before my next increment was due. Why is this restricted to level7/8 though. Surely the theory is the same regardless of what increment level you are currently on. You might be getting the same pay you would have got if you stayed a JT for another year but evnentually like me you reach the top level and if you don't get picked up for promotion you're stuck there forever more. I was lucky and got picked up without marking time, just. Atleast once you're promoted you keep going up the scales for a few years more.

 

[MingMong]

If you are on level 7 or 8 and got promoted, maybe you should count yourself lucky that you were promoted so quickly and didn't have to spend years on level 9 like some of your colleagues have had to.
OK, maybe you feel hard done by that your promotion date didn't quite fall when you wanted it to, but you could have turned it down and it wouldn't have been an issue. At least you now have 5 years of increments to look forward to rather than just one more untill you reach the top level and start marking time.

 

[Prudhoe]

If you are on level 7 or 8 and got promoted, maybe you should count yourself lucky that you were promoted so quickly and didn't have to spend years on level 9 like some of your colleagues have had to.
OK, maybe you feel hard done by that your promotion date didn't quite fall when you wanted it to, but you could have turned it down and it wouldn't have been an issue. At least you now have 5 years of increments to look forward to rather than just one more untill you reach the top level and start marking time.

True, however, that doesn't make it fair. More responsibility should equate to greater reward, and 2% hardly reflects the jump from airman to NCO.

 

[monobrow]

Put my details into the spreadsheet and it comes up with I got a 4.8% payrise!

Trouble is, I left the airman scale at level 9. And I'm not on £28,043 now. Neither was I on £26,735. You sure the figures in the spreadsheet are right??

To be honest, I'm not sure what kind of point you're trying to make. The fact that people who get promoted at say level 8 go to the equivalent of level 9? The facts are there in black and white and has been the same since 2001. What do you plan to achieve by this? Someone make some big shake up of the pay scales??

I doubt thats going to happen because someone gets promoted close to their increment date.

 

[bug_bloke]

Disillusioned -
This issue is only restricted to SACs/JTs that were on higher pay band level 7 or 8 when promoted. And for many of them it still won't be a problem, that is why I have started this thread, to find those who are effected. You are right that whose who get picked up before marking time could been seen as lucky, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't get at least 2% pay rise the upon promotion they deserve, like everyone else.

Ming Mong -
If those due to be promoted turned it down it would stop there promotion for at least 2 years, i.e. not looked at on next board, which is not an option if it is the pay they are concerned with. The point is not that I think whose promoted should get more than they are entitled, just the same. Great name by the way.

As stated in the heading and first post, this thread will only effect a small section of Corporals.
Those it does not effect because they were promoted from level 9, are on the lower pay scale or got promoted before this became a problem (pre pay2000) may not understand the issue and will think I am bleating on about nothing. Please leave constructive and supportive comments, (Prudhoe).
However, for those that it does effect, this is a real concern and I invite those people to add to this thread so it can be seen how big this seemingly little problem is.

 

[True Blue Jack]

You will have got a minimum of a 2% pay increase on promotion - fact. The possibility that you would have received the same (or similar) pay increase if you had not been promoted is more or less irrelevant.

On promotion you move onto the bottom (or near bottom) of a whole new pay range, can look forward to 7 or 9 years of further incremental increases (which you would not get if not promoted) and may have a further opportunity for AIP.

That's not to say there aren't discrepancies. If we look at one scenario: if you are on SAC Level 8 when promoted you will move onto Cpl Level 1. Someone on SAC Level 9 promoted on the same day as you will move onto Cpl Level 2. He will be paid more than you yet may have taken one or more years to get promoted. Hardly seems fair does it?

Btw, this phenomenon does not apply solely to SACs on the higher pay scale. It certainly applies to the Cpl/Sgt overlap on the lower pay scale and if I could be bothered to look more deeply into it I would probably find it applies to all pay ranges.

Bottom line: P2K was designed to be a fairer system for all. Unfortunately, like all such projects it was required to be cost-neutral. As such the system is full of anomalies like the one you describe. In the last 6 years every anomaly has been moaned about, some have brought rule changes, more have brought a corporate shoulder-shrug and the answer "Tough luck, but in a year or 2 you'll have forgotten all about it".

 

[tommo9999]

Bottom line: P2K was designed to be a fairer system for all. Unfortunately, like all such projects it was required to be cost-neutral. As such the system is full of anomalies like the one you describe. In the last 6 years every anomaly has been moaned about, some have brought rule changes, more have brought a corporate shoulder-shrug and the answer "Tough luck, but in a year or 2 you'll have forgotten all about it".

Pay 2K was introduced to create enough money to pay for Harrier pilot FRI's. The long-term savings were used to offset against the lump sum those jockeys received.

 

[Mug?]

pay rise

pay rise

When I got promoted I had the choice to take promotion and go onto the new P2K levels or stay on the rank I was and get MORE money (50p a day if my rusty memory serves me) after my increment date. I was thinking of getting out and was tempted to turn it down.
If you now get the same on promotion there isn't an issue as I see it?
Your IDD will change too remember.

Do they take acting rank time into account still when working out your IDD?

 

[True Blue Jack]

When I got promoted I had the choice to take promotion and go onto the new P2K levels or stay on the rank I was and get MORE money (50p a day if my rusty memory serves me) after my increment date. I was thinking of getting out and was tempted to turn it down.
If you now get the same on promotion there isn't an issue as I see it?
Your IDD will change too remember.

Do they take acting rank time into account still when working out your IDD?

It depends on the nature of the acting rank. Local acting does not count towards seniority but SPAR (special paid acting rank) does. If you mean acting rank pending completion of promotion courses then the substantive rank is backdated once all the courses are completed.

 

[Wonky Tonka]

Level 8?

Personally, I was a level 9 JT and had "marked time" at this years increment date as I couldn't go any higher.

Got promoted on 02/07 so only had to suffer it for a month or so.

Dunno about 2%, but my monthly pay increase is about £60 in my pocket.

 

[MrMasher]

Sorry to be blunt about it, but, its a poor whinge.
Some of us went straight in at JT level 9 when Pay 2000 came in and sat there until promotion came. No advancement with AIP and no jump up a level each year.
If its such a problem go see the AOC about it, otherwise just enjoy the new rank and responsibilities and the fact that you now have more levels to increase by.

 

[CodeMonkey]

Someone on SAC Level 9 promoted on the same day as you will move onto Cpl Level 2. He will be paid more than you yet may have taken one or more years to get promoted. Hardly seems fair does it?.

slightly Off Topic
Sorry TBJ But i was promoted of JT 9 Higher and went straight onto Cpl 3 Higher

 

[True Blue Jack]

slightly Off Topic
Sorry TBJ But i was promoted of JT 9 Higher and went straight onto Cpl 3 Higher

I didn't have the pay scales to hand at the time but if anything you have reinforced the point I was making.

 

[OK..Igiveup]

me too

me too

Was JT level 9, went in at level 3 - 1 AIP to level 4 then following year onto level 5 while smarmy secondary duty boy who got promoted 8 months before me had to mark time for 3 years, cheers although we are both stuck at the top now waiting for the offer......holding our breath so hurry up..or I will sue when I die!

This thing will only make a difference to the guys on the new pension scheme where the pension is based on pay over the 12 months.

 

[paramole]

you have hit the nail on the head as they say MR MASHER
Sorry to be blunt about it, but, its a poor whinge.
Some of us went straight in at JT level 9 when Pay 2000 came in and sat there until promotion came. No advancement with AIP and no jump up a level each year.
If its such a problem go see the AOC about it, otherwise just enjoy the new rank and responsibilities and the fact that you now have more levels to increase by.
I like you marked time from when pay 2000 came in and stayed there till two years ago, will get the same again in another few years, as i came in at level 3 and put in an AIP stright away. then the same long wait again!

what goes around sure comes aroundDT_Xtremez_40:

 

[DrunkenMonki]

I got promoted 2 months before i was due to increment to level 9, hence i was still at 8. This is identical to level 1 corporal, as such i was promoted straight in at level 2. I then used an AIP and went straight to level 3. So i always took a pay rise. I did lose 10 months of seniority in effect though, due to how close to level 9 i was. No bitching from me though, as i overtook that anyway, plus i'm crap so was lucky to get corporal anyway.