DWR Turnrounds being made even worse....

[muttywhitedog]

Ok, this is a question for Tommo999 and anyone else with inside knowledge of how the DWR works for TG17....

Turnround for my rank is 20-24 months. Pretty short eh?

Turnround for FS is 24-30 months. Still short, but not as short as for Sgts.

Why then are Sgts being DWRd to fill FS's posts, holding UPAR?

This is only increasing the pressure and turnround time on the other Sgts.

And please dont say "It benefits the individual holding a higher rank" because they could just as easily hold it back at home whilst their FS goes out and fills a DWR FS post!

If the post is established for a particular rank then surely it should be filled by an individual of that rank, not someone acting up.

Thoughts please folks....

 

[Rugby-Jock-Lad]

Off Topic Mutty. Just thank your lucky stars you are not on a Tactical Unit or a Squadron. They are getting the sh1tty end of the stick. My turnaround is about 4 years. Sure yours seems short but you aren't out of the country for 4-6 months at a time each year!!! This isn't a STFU by any stretch but I can guarantee someone from another trade will come on and ask what you are moaning about??Off Topic

 

[fed_up_scribbly]

The short turn-round times suit me fine - I need the extra dosh to pay for a solicitor to arrange my divorce! I'll be volunteering for Afghan this week....

 

[The Gimp]

I am a TG9 Sgt, currently OOA and scheduled to get back to blighty next week. I already have my dates for Kandahar of Jan 10 so I know about quick turn rounds.

I do sympathise about filling F/S posts which, I agree does compound the problem though with 24 months between dets, it's hardly a massive hardship.

 

[Kernow]

Ok, this is a question for Tommo999 and anyone else with inside knowledge of how the DWR works for TG17....

Turnround for my rank is 20-24 months. Pretty short eh?

Turnround for FS is 24-30 months. Still short, but not as short as for Sgts.

Why then are Sgts being DWRd to fill FS's posts, holding UPAR?

This is only increasing the pressure and turnround time on the other Sgts.

And please dont say "It benefits the individual holding a higher rank" because they could just as easily hold it back at home whilst their FS goes out and fills a DWR FS post!

If the post is established for a particular rank then surely it should be filled by an individual of that rank, not someone acting up.

Thoughts please folks....

Its not only shineys that this is limited to, it is happening across the board.

You will find that whilst a post is established for a FS it will be filled by a Sgt as the job itself is not a FS job, it is merely an issue of wearing rank. Not sure about the UPAR as I was under the impression SPAR was awarded for the duration of the det. Certainly is in other trades.

Hope that makes sense still early in the morning after nights!

 

[busby1971]

A few more questions

A few more questions

What effect is the 10% reduction on Sgt manning doing.

What is the WO DWR turnaround time.

What effect will the drawdown from Iraq/Bahrain/Qatar etc this year have on the trade turn around times (and where will the ACOS guys go now).

All the above are slightly cynical and mostly rhetorical.

 

[tommo9999]

As some have already stated, there can be lots of different reasons - posts can be rank-ranged, theatre feel they need someone to hold higher rank for a specific reason etc etc. I'm not precisely sure just why the TRT's have fallen through the floor, but I'm guessing the slashing of TG17 numbers allied to a disproportionate increase in the DWR commitment has not helped. For example, I can remember when FS TRT was 8-10 years, and it is not many years ago. I believe we also absorbed some extra posts from the Army due to their inability fill them. The fact that there is currently no TRT for WO is a desperate situation for a variety of reasons, not least credibility and the fact that (shocking as it may seem) there remain a number of WO TG17 who have never deployed anywhere at any time. If we use that part of the trade that has no commitment to do something, then the benefits will filter down to all ranks. There is no reason why a WO can't deploy in rotation with a FS to, for example, the Falkland Islands, as has happened intermittently in the recent past. As for the FMDL policy at Sgt rank - I said it was bonkers at the time and I have seen nothing to change my view. With the throughput of trainees about to really get going this year, it is a position which becomes more indefensible in my opinion. Good JNCO's have not been promoted because of this policy, which was ill-conceived at best, and bordering negligent at worse. FMDL gaps should be carried at base rank, and exceptionally, at the next rank up. I understand that this view is not held by Manning but as I said earlier, convince me it was/is/continues to be the best way to manage gaps and I'll support it. All of the above said, I am not fully in the picture as perhaps (arguable!!) I once was, so there may be factors I am not aware of. As busby says, we should see some benefit of the planned reduction in our footprint in Iraq.

 

[muttywhitedog]

Off Topic Mutty. Just thank your lucky stars you are not on a Tactical Unit or a Squadron. They are getting the sh1tty end of the stick. My turnaround is about 4 years. Sure yours seems short but you aren't out of the country for 4-6 months at a time each year!!! This isn't a STFU by any stretch but I can guarantee someone from another trade will come on and ask what you are moaning about??Off Topic

err, last time I checked, 1(F) Sqn (my unit) was a Sqn, flying Harriers, going on operations. I wasnt asking from a personal point of view as there is no way in the present climate that I will not get a DWR credit year on year. I was asking for a slant from a drafter or expert on the rationale behind further stretching a very stretched rank within my trade.

So stfu

 

[wobbly]

Come over to Lyneham or Odiham mate. Us lot have been deployed since 2001 without any other squadron giving us a break from ops. We've been doing 4-6 months a year in Kandahar, Basrah and Al Udied. Some of our lads are doing 8 month plus.............stick that in your pipe fella

But I do know what you mean with acting rank. Our SACs are doing their 4-6 months a year and then getting stiffed for a 2 monther on top as acting corporal. I've never seen a Sgt do a Flight Sergeants slot mind. Two ranks is a bit of a **** take and would think it illegal.

What are your chiefs doing ffs? or have they all PVR'd?

Anyway mate, I know your not after a personal view but there you are. I hope the Admin blokes get you some good gen. Good luck.

 

[3wheeledtechie]

Shiney forum, therefore Fruit Segment 1 rank up.

 

[wobbly]

Okay.....I thought he was a techie on a Harrier Squadron I'll get my coat However, its the same in the techie world. Sgts being put in into chiefs slots. Its the sign of the times I', afraid. Slots to fill and if the people in rank ain't available then the slot needs filling...period.

I will slowly back out of the adminers conversation now.

sorry lads

 

[MrMasher]

Ok, this is a question for Tommo999 and anyone else with inside knowledge of how the DWR works for TG17....

Turnround for my rank is 20-24 months. Pretty short eh?

Turnround for FS is 24-30 months. Still short, but not as short as for Sgts.

Why then are Sgts being DWRd to fill FS's posts, holding UPAR?

QUOTE]

To me it sounds like too many FS's are ducking out of their OOA or there just arent enough FS's to do it and the turn round time is pure fabrication for the FS's.
There is far too much acting rank going on in the RAF for my liking.
If we need that many acting ranks it means we havent got enough people at that rank and the LUE hasnt taken everything into account that it should have.

Off TopicI once saw a FS on a H&S course who was doing it for resettlement. He had never been OOA in his entire career. Shocking.

 

[rest have risen above me]

Off TopicI once saw a FS on a H&S course who was doing it for resettlement. He had never been OOA in his entire career. Shocking.

Off TopicSo what does ILLBW look like then? DT_Xtremez_30:

 

[Humble Scribe]

Well here's one FS Shiney who's not ducking out of his OOA and going in turn (and at short notice) unlike the Sgt who drafted me. This is not a whinge or a moan just a statement of fact and I do appreciate that there could be very good reasons why this is the case.

 

[shimmeringbottom]

How many FS OOA can there be versus how many FS there are versus how many are actually fit? There's the problem - FS's signed on to 55 and Perm Downgraded = cheers easy x 15 years or so!!

Can't be that many slots with one sandy location winding down surely? They've just promoted 40 ish off last board and released 9 off current board = nearly 50 new FS's - are they all knackered?

Jesus, wot a state of affairs - to have to promote near 50 to FS in recent past is a sad indictment of TG17 - where did all these vacancies come from FFS are we losing that many to civvie street?

WO & 'senior FS' do some OOA and Sgts and more junior FS share the other lot or all crocks to Falklands or something more sensible - there must be an answer!

Answers on a postcard to anyone who gives a sh!t!!

 

[KingGuin]

FYI, WO turnaround is 8 years - and only a couple of posts to fill at the mo. I volunteered to go the next country we invade.

 

[ReluctantClerk]

At least 18 of the FS posts have been created in FDS/TDF roles and with some of those in post leaving/promoted more have been required. Not sure about the rest but apparently the turn around for FS is now about 30 months. As you say mind blowing really that there are so many and yet only about a max of 30 required for a 3 yr rotation.

It makes me sick that the same people have to go to 'real' OOAs generally at short notice and in general the same names appear again and again (of those who actually do take part in one of the things we all get paid for!) in your al udied/seeb type safe, sunshine postings.

If you've never been a part of PMA/ACOS manning in the recent past your names are very, very rarely on the latter list!

I would be extremely happy to be proven wrong..................but I can't see it happening!::

 

[KingGuin]

If you've never been a part of PMA/ACOS manning in the recent past your names are very, very rarely on the latter list!

I would be extremely happy to be proven wrong..................but I can't see it happening!::

Said it before, say it again, just think about the percentage of TG17 who work within "PMA/ACOS" (e.g. when I was there it was 42%) so conversely the number of promotions, OOA etc featuring those personnel is bound to be high.
Add to that the SNCO FMDL and the number of glassbacks at that rank level then it becomes even more parochial.

Regardless of what you/we believe if there was transparency of OOA/prom/etc etc then we may all be less inclined to make these observations. However I am sure we would find somethng else to have a pop atDT_Xtremez_15:

 

[yorkie_64]

Just been pinged for my next OOA came back Sep 07 off Oct 09!stfu

 

[busby1971]

For and against

For and against

Said it before, say it again, just think about the percentage of TG17 who work within "PMA/ACOS" (e.g. when I was there it was 42%) so conversely the number of promotions, OOA etc featuring those personnel is bound to be high.
Add to that the SNCO FMDL and the number of glassbacks at that rank level then it becomes even more parochial.

Regardless of what you/we believe if there was transparency of OOA/prom/etc etc then we may all be less inclined to make these observations. However I am sure we would find somethng else to have a pop atDT_Xtremez_15:

When I were serving on a formed unit we made frequent trips to Southern Italy and out to Incirlik, Italy was always PMA, as it was, and turkey was the Pay guys, whilst I'm sure people were taken in turn it seemed turns appeared in a certain order

42% of which rank?