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Email your MP - Social Housing for Ex Servicemen

Vim_Fuego My intentions are to advice service peronnel on the pit falls of buying a house in the present climate. As was placed in the national papers today, some people are taking out mortgages over 9 time their earnings.

The following is something I read recently, "Ignorance is nothing to be ashamed off - But its nothing to be proud off either!

The following was sent to me today by the Shadow Defence Minister. It's the Tory Parties state of the nation report that was launched this week. As you will see they cover the area of home ownership amongst service personnel and their future look forward. The document is very long so I have placed just a small amount on here. If anyone would like the full document then please email me.


Regards

Hitback

Forces Families Mark Harper MP

In the Army, three quarters of personnel live in Army accommodation. In the ranks home ownership is just 9%.:PDT_Xtremez_03:

Housing and accommodation

The Ministry of Defence currently manages 49,000 service family and 150,00single living units, making it Britain's largest property manager4. The quality of this accommodation is graded on a four point scale. Most of the Service Families Accommodation (SFA) is in the top two grades5. However, half of all Single Living Accommodation (SLA) is of the worst standard (see table 1). This problem has been highlighted recently by the media and, in an interview, the Adjutant General, Lt Gen Viggers said “there is still too much accommodation
which is of a poor standard, and is old and is not modern in terms of the way that is fitting for the families.”6 In the 2006 Continuous Attitudes Survey just 40% of soldiers were satisfied with their Army accommodation.

It is not fair to expect our forces to come home from the many operations that they are being asked to undertake to accommodation that most people would find unacceptable. This problem is particularly acute in the Army, where a much higher proportion of personnel are housed in service accommodation (see table 2).

Table 1: MoD Accommodation by grade
Grade Service Families Accommodation (SFA)--Single Living Accommodation (SLA)
1 (good) 27,687 (59%)------------------------------- --- 24,254 (18%)
2 16,916 (36%)---------------------------------------------23,261 (17%)
3 2,089 (4%)------------------------------------------------22,931 (17%)
4 (bad) 139 (1%)-------------------------------------------66,836 (48%)

Total 46,831 137,282

To address this issue there are two things that need to be done. First, and most simply, the quality of accommodation needs to be improved. To be fair to the Government, some progress is being made here. Project SLAM is modernising the SLA, costing some £480 million in the first five years; a further £335 million will be spent in the years 2008/09 to 2012/139. This will upgrade a total of 13,000 single living spaces. The MoD currently intends to upgrade SFA accommodation at a rate of about 900 units a year. At these rates it
will takes decades to get the accommodation up the standards that we would expect, and they must still be maintained at this standard. A recent NAO report noted that “a significant number of Service personnel and their families are likely to be housed in poor quality accommodation for 20 years or more”. We will investigate whether the upgrading process can be accelerated, and at what cost.

The second option is to improve the proportion of service personnel who actually live in and own their own homes. At present only 9% of Army soldiers live in and own their home (compared to 18% of officers)11; 64% of other ranks in the Army have never owned their own home (just 25% for officers). Table 2 shows the proportion of each service occupying service accommodation.

Table 2: Proportion of personnel living in Service accommodation
Service Number paying accommodation charges--Total strength of service Percentage
Royal Navy 14,627------------------------------------------------------39,390 37
Army 78,902-----------------------------------------------------107,703 73
RAF 27,908-----------------------------------------------------48,730 57

The problem that personnel face is that it is very difficult to get onto the housing ladder. When accommodation is already provided, the incentive to buy a home, with all the risks that this involves is not great. However, when a colour sergeant, for example, leaves the Army at the age of 40 he or she does not want to consider getting their first mortgage. In the Continuous Attitudes Survey 37% of responding officers were either fairly or very dissatisfied
with the prospects for buying or even renting a house. This rose to 42% for other ranks. Some service families are leaving the forces and going into hostels. At present local authorities do not need to consider forces families as having a ‘local connection’ for the purposes of social housing. The Conservative Party will investigate if this system can be developed in a way that will support service personnel, but not place an unacceptable burden
on local communities.

The MoD does currently provide a Long Service Advance of Pay (LSAP) worth up to £8,500. This does not go very far in the current housing market and it has failed to keep up with the rise in house prices. This is further compounded by the fact that the LSAP cannot be used to buy properties that are then rented out. This rule is, reasonably, in place to stop personnel using the allowance for their own profit, but it also means that personnel with a high mobility can never take advantage of the scheme and make it onto the housing ladder. These rules need to be reviewed. We will look at ways in which we can encourage and support personnel to get onto the
housing ladder while still serving so that, when they do leave, they have a home and base from which they can start their new life.
 
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Affordable Housing???

Affordable Housing???

Once again we hear in the news that housing is no longer affordable by the essential services, nurses firemen and police but as usual the currently struggling serviceman is left out of the equation.
why is it we supposedly earn a better than average wage yet how many of us can afford the average house?
when do we get our right to buy or essential services assistance (outside the m25 loop)
 
Once again we hear in the news that housing is no longer affordable by the essential services, nurses firemen and police but as usual the currently struggling serviceman is left out of the equation.
why is it we supposedly earn a better than average wage yet how many of us can afford the average house?
when do we get our right to buy or essential services assistance (outside the m25 loop)

Good post. Me and my partner moved to Carterton and bought our first property. one bedroom flat, 98,500. The house prices in this and surrounding areas are reaching London rates due to all the fat businessmen, who buy big cheap housing only to travel to London every day (tbh I probably would) but the forces don't seem to recognise inflation. Yes they have a policy or 2 in place but to the average airman that first foot on the ladder is still almost impossible to gain unless they are with a partner on a good wage. I know a lot of people who have rushed through marriage just to get a quarter and sadly plenty of them have ended in divorce. Maybe the MOD should introduce their own version of the 50% mortgage to personnel signed on for a certain number of years ?
 
These are two very good posts and in fact the last post is very near to what the Tory Defence Minister Mark Harper, has stated. If anyone would like the manifesto pledge being made by the Tory party then please send me your email address and I will forward it onto you. I can say with my hand on my heart, due to all the campaigning and publicity around how badly our armed forces have been treated, one party has made a pledge to sort it out.

Thank you for your support on this issue and for keeping it alive on this site.

Regards

Hitback
 
These are two very good posts and in fact the last post is very near to what the Tory Defence Minister Mark Harper, has stated. If anyone would like the manifesto pledge being made by the Tory party then please send me your email address and I will forward it onto you. I can say with my hand on my heart, due to all the campaigning and publicity around how badly our armed forces have been treated, one party has made a pledge to sort it out.

Thank you for your support on this issue and for keeping it alive on this site.

Regards

Hitback

Hitback, as much as i hope you are correct and a party is gonna sort this out i cannot for one second see it happening....It's all electioneering bull.

I for one hope you are right and that salvation is around the corner but i fear if i started to hold my breath at the end of the next 10 years i would be dead before it was sorted.

Crack on........:PDT_Xtremez_09:
 
Hitback, as much as i hope you are correct and a party is gonna sort this out i cannot for one second see it happening....It's all electioneering bull.

I for one hope you are right and that salvation is around the corner but i fear if i started to hold my breath at the end of the next 10 years i would be dead before it was sorted.

Crack on........:PDT_Xtremez_09:

I've a feeling it might happen. I was watching David Cameron being interviewed by Andrew Marr this morning. Given that we make up a minority of the electorate and are not flavour of the month after the HMS Cornwall balls-up, he stuck his neck out in support of the Armed Forces. Historically, the Tories have done more for our benefit than any other party in government. That looks likely to continue if (as I hope and expect) they get back in next time around.
 
Once again we hear in the news that housing is no longer affordable by the essential services, nurses firemen and police but as usual the currently struggling serviceman is left out of the equation.
why is it we supposedly earn a better than average wage yet how many of us can afford the average house?
when do we get our right to buy or essential services assistance (outside the m25 loop)

Without wishing to go too far off topic from Hitbacks thread. You already have housing provided in the forces, its called the block or families quarters.
 
The following was sent to me today, I have still got to read the attachements in detail, so unable to give any idea on its real contexts.



Regards
Hitback

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Hitback,



I cannot remember if I sent you the Forces Families stuff, it is attached. Also attached is the draft of the first part of the document that will initially outline the problem for colleagues and then have potential solutions. I would appreciate your comments on both.



There have been some discussions on this. I suspect that the preferred solution will be to reduce the problem by helping personnel get on the housing ladder while in service. This is clearly a long term solution involving equity schemes and changes to the LSAP that we still need to work on. In the short term, the difficulty of the having a ‘burden’ on local authorities will remain a concern to other departments, having read more material on this, I think that complete removal of section199 will be met with opposition. This will not stop me trying to get it through.



In the meantime, one thought I had would be removing just the restriction on families getting local connection – so if spouses have jobs locally the get on the list while the other spouse is serving, but single personnel would be still be expected to return to family area. My assumption is that the current rules have a far greater impact on families – especially those with young children - rather than single personnel. Single personnel will generally be younger, served less time, so returning to home area will be less of an issue. However, I am still not satisfied with that solution and I need more data.



You might also be interested to know that the conservative group on Windsor council are running on this as part on their local election manifesto!



Look forward to hearing from you.



Best
XXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXX XXXXXXXX XXXXX

House of Commons
 
This thread was originally about service men & women being able to compete on equal terms with civilians for social housing which I support 100%


Once again we hear in the news that housing is no longer affordable by the essential services, nurses firemen and police but as usual the currently struggling serviceman is left out of the equation.
why is it we supposedly earn a better than average wage yet how many of us can afford the average house?
when do we get our right to buy or essential services assistance (outside the m25 loop)

However the problem of getting on the housing ladder is a problem that affects people throughout the UK, and all servicemen and women have always had the right to buy. if you are earning above average wages and cannot afford to buy, then apart from looking in other areas to buy then maybe some inward looking should take place before expecting a helping hand.
 
wolfy very good points. There are so many people outside the wire trying to housing. The nation stock is so very short of what is required, thats why it's so important to get this legislation changed, to place military personnel and their families on the field of play. At present with the current legislation I can safely say military personnel are left out of sight out of mind and well of the field of play.

I believe the military require to first start educating service personnel about mortgages and get them to look at their future housing needs. I aslo believe that the Exchequer should give up the shared profits agreement with Annington Homes Plc and allow service personnel greater discount for those properties. 30% as previouse tennents of under 10 service and 60% max for those that have completed more than 20 years. They could introduce a sliding scale for the years between. We should not forget the Exchequer made over 100 million between 1996 and 2004 from the profit shared agreement and the 1.6 billion that was generated from the sale of SFA disappeared into the Exchequers Accounts. Military families continue to keep the houses in good repair, so Annington can sell them on for a massive profits. Annington got each house for £29,000.


Regards

Hitback
 
The information from the DCLG turned up today. It has lots of black pen through it, but I have noticed by some of the information that there is a consensus there needs to be changes made. Its been down to all of you that have taken part, and, I hope continue to take part in this campaign, that will force those in power to amend the legislation in due course. We all require to continue to send emails to our MPs asking them why 199(2)and (3) is so important now days, is it correct that the Immigrations Department should be permitted to take 10% of Social Housing stock. This stock is in great need for those people already resident in this country?

Regards

Hitback

P.S Some of the information I received is from web site forums.
 
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THE RAF AND NAVY DONT HAVE A PROBLEM WITH HOUSING WHEN LEAVING THE FORCES. :PDT_Xtremez_21:


As you will see from the following information there are moves a foot, however the time scale is very slow. At least someone understands that local areas with a military presents do benefit from their locations. The data that was being put together was being limited to the following locations; Aldershot (Army), Brize Norton (RAF), Catterick (Army), Colchester (Army) Plymouth (Royal Navy),, Tidworth (Army), Warminster (Army). The following location have been dispensed with; Brize Norton, Lineham, Plymouth, Portsmouth, HMS Collingwood. Their understanding is this is not such an issue with the RAF and the Royal Navy. I beg to differ, this issue affects all service personnel? They were also looking for more locations to exclude from the data being requested. Once again we see the government trying to paste over the cracks. Its very important at this early stage, that the correct number of service personnel and families being discriminated by Housing Association etc is formulated correctly, must include all locations. The other point I would like to make is, What about future locations for Super Garrisons. The local infranstructors will become hugh all built up by service families and single personnel!

Its the legislation that requires to change not pep talks to some HAs and Councils.

Plymouth has by all accounts included in the data but I'm not sure. None of the data has come with this FOI from the DCLG.

THIS IS WHY YOU HAVE TO BE ACTIVE ON THIS CAMAPIGN. AS MINISTERS SEEM TO BELIEVE THE RAF AND NAVY ARE OK.::/:


Regards

Hiback

DCLG83.jpg
 
I have 96 pages of information from the DCLG. The following is of interest and looks at the wording of the Homelessness Legislation. The first entry by the JSHAO sums up the lack of knowledge service personnel have about their future housing needs in civvie street. It would be interesting to know the % of service personnel that aren't getting out of the forces that attend the Housing Options briefings. These briefings are mostly attended by service leavers, aren't they?

That's why I believe it's very important to have a greater spread of briefings at all military locations. As said before, they could be attached to the CDT Teams that visit all military location at least once a year.

Regards

Hitback

P.S You can still sign the Petition by using the link at the bottom. Thank you.:PDT_Xtremez_28:


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
24 Nov 06

We come across lots of people that are under the misapprehension that Time in Service Accommodation establishes a local connection particularly at our Housing Options briefings.

This is further complicated by the fact that a minority of local authorities do acknowledge that lengthy periods in the same location qualify or at least accumulate points on Housing Needs Registers. Some will recognise time spent in SFA but only as an irregular and normally only if you have been an IO for more than 6 months.

The irony is of course that with key worker status an individual could now establish a local connection and purchase a property through NewBuild HomeBuy. A colleague who could not afford HomeBuy would leave without a local connection.

I do however have a great deal of sympathy with local authorities. The rules as they stand at present (first promulgated in DE circular 14/93) are designed to spread the load - the alternative would put huge demands on what in some cases are small local authorities

I think we should tread carefully, we run the risk of upsetting some local authorities big time and losing what little good will we currently have.

OIC JSHAO
HQ Land Command
Wilton
Salisbury
Tel: 01722'


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
H6@defence.gsi.gov.uk> 30/11/06 10:28:41 >»

I am currently gathering evidence for you , but in the interim have a look at xxxxxx attached email . It articulates the peculiarities that exist with eligibility of granting Key Worker Status that I previously discussed with you. By simple default of KW status eligibility - local connection has already been established. So I am really confused as to why accruing local connection points whilst living in an area whilst still serving, is so difficult to sustain with DCLG.

Not withstanding xxxxxxx other comments about flooding local authorities - I come back to the same point that I made during our first meeting in that this is about parity of treatment - regardless of how long somebody has to wait for accommodation to become available when they leave the Services, they should start as equal to the rest of society. In other words create a level playing field before personnel leave the Armed forces.
Suggest we meet to see how we can take this forward. What is your diary like for the 14 Dec?


AD Housing 020

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Frances Walker

Sent: 10 January 2007 17:38

Subject: Re: Local conection

Thanks for your email and sorry to take a while to get back to you. I am afraid that I did not pick up till now your offer to meet in December. I did not mean to be rude and am certainly very happy to do so now, if this would be helpful. My diary is relatively free at the moment.
I wonder whether it would help if I try to clarify the position on the allocation of social housing and local connection. I am not sure whether we are at cross-purposes to some extent.

When it comes to letting social rented housing, local authorities (LAs) must comply with part 6 of the Housing Act 1996. This was revised by the Homelessness Act 2002 -which came into effect in Jan 2003. Prior to the 2002 Act amendments, LAs could decide who qualified to go on their register. They would often impose residency qualifications, or a local connection.

As a result of the 2002 Act amendments, LAs can no longer set their own qualification criteria. Anyone is eligible to go on the housing waiting list, except certain persons from abroad and people guilty of unacceptable behaviour. However, the allocation legislation allows but does not require LAs to take into account certain factors in determining between people in the "reasonable preference" categories. The reasonable preference categories are those people who should be given priority for social housing. The allocation legislation gives examples of the sort of factors which could be taken into account, including -

"any local connection (within the meaning of section 199 [of the 1996 Act]) which exists between a person and the authority's district".

Section 199 is part of the homelessness legislation and provides -

"(1) A person has a local connection with the district of a local housing authority if he has a connnection with it -

(a) because he is, or in the past was, normally resident there, and that residence is or was of his own choice,

(b) because he is employed there

-------I believe some information may have been removed from here?

(2) A person is not employed in a district if he is serving in the regular armed forces of the Crown.

(3) Residence in a district is not of a person's own choice if -

(a) he becomes resident there because he, or a person who might reasonably be expected to reside with him, is serving in the regular armed forces of the Crown

------- I believe some information may have been removed from here?

I thought it might be worth setting out the above, so that you are clear that the definition of "local connection" in the allocations context is set out in statute - it is not simply a matter of what DCLG can or cannot sustain. This provides that service personnel do not have a local connection through employment or residence of choice, where they are serving in the armed forces. If the Government wanted to change this, a change to the primary legislation would be required.

Having said that, LAs do not have to take into account local connection in determining priorities. Where they do so, this will have to be clearly stated in their allocation scheme. Also, even if they do take into account local connection, the fact that a serviceman or woman may not be able to demonstrate that he has one -

- will not make him/her ineligible
- will not necessarily mean that he/she has no priority.

It will simply mean that he has less priority than someone who does have a local connection. However, clearly in very high demand areas this could mean that he/she has little chance of being housed until he/she has acquired such a connection (in other words until he/she has found other employment or lived there for a certain amount of time after leaving the armed forces).

I have just written to the LAs which house the larger military establishments (you kindly sent me the list) to try to find out what their allocation scheme provides, and for any data they can give me about service personnel on the waiting list and/or allocated accommodation. I am attaching copy of the letter. Hopefully, this may give some idea of the extent of the issue.

suggests in his email, there is a sound policy rationale for the local connection provisions as they relate to servicemen. In the allocations context, this is to avoid creating disproportionate pressure on waiting lists in those districts which host military bases and at the expense of other residents of the district. Any proposal to change the legislation in the allocations context could well generate strong localised opposition.

I am afraid that I am a little bit puzzled by the reference to key worker status and NewBuild HomeBuy. I am not sure how someone would establish a "local connection" in this context and, even if this were a relevant for NB HB, what effect this would have on the statutory provisions which govern local connection in the allocations context. Could you explain a bit more? I am probably being a bit dim.

Sorry for the length of this email. Look forward to hearing from you.

Frances

Frances
Social Housing Management Branch
DCLG
020

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
11 Jan 07


Frances

Thank you for this. Your email confirms my understanding of the housing Act. It is item 2 of Section'199 that I am wanting to remove. Service families can be posted into an area for virtually the whole of their career so from their perspective they are fundamentally contributing to the community - Council tax , supporting and contributing towards the local economy , spouse employment, dependants in education etc. I just want a level playing field for them to accrue points as everybody else who resides and works in that locality.

I have also been collecting data which I will send later. This will give an indication of likely numbers and geographical spread.
think it would be useful for us to speak , I am free 23, 25,26 Jan

AD Housing
SpPol 020721M
 
The Petition has now ended and the support totalled 3499 signatures. Thank to all those that added their names.

The EDM is the main direction now, so please start emailing your MPs asking them to support EDM 288. All those that have emailed their MPs and are still waiting for a reply, please EMail them again asking them why they have failed to respond.

There is no way I will drop this campaign, until this disgraceful legislation is changed. We serve this country and its people and we deserve better treatment than we are currently getting. A level playing field is all we ask for so why all the obstacles!!

Please keep all the good work going.

Regards


Hitback
 
The EDM has now got 215 MPs pledged to it. The last group of five are Labour MPs! Seeing as they are in power lets hope they do something about this disgraceful legislation.

It's all down to the pressure brought to bear on our political masters by all of you that have emailed their MPs. If you haven't read the start of this issue then here is a quick synopsis;

The current Homelessness Legislation discriminates against service personnel and their families. It puts us at a distinct disadvantage when competing with civilians for Social Housing /Housing Associations. An early day motion is currently being signed by MPs which if carried, will help change this legislation, but we need more of them to sign it if we are to get the government to take notice. We now need your support to get this through. Go to the link at the bottom to send a Royal British Legion pre-written email to your MP asking them to support our armed forces.

If you wish to read the EDM and view which MPs have already signed, then go to the first link at the bottom of my threads.

Thank you for all your support.

Regards
Hitback
 
I have very little to report on this issue at present but hope after the long weekend we will have more MPs signed up to EDM 288. The only thing I have been able to do is to contact some ex-colonels from my old Battalion asking them to bring this issue up in some of the circles. I'm also hoping to meet up with Lord Brammel to talk about this topic and ask him to bring it up at the House of Lords. I shall report back if or when this happens.

Please keep emailing your MPs and if you have already and they have failed to reply to you, then get back to them asking why they have failed to sign the EDM.


Regards

Hitback
 
The following letter has been sent to my MP Mrs Nadine Dorries Mid Beds. I shall keep this site and all the others updated on it outcome.

Hitback



Dear Nadine,

I am writing to you to ask if you could organise a meeting with myself and Mr Cameron. I would like to discuss with him the problems en-counted by service leavers under the current Homelessness Legislation 199(2)and (3). As your EDM 288 points out it has an averse affect on those that have served their country and that's not acceptable. The information I received from the DCLG and the MoD shows this issue does have an adverse affect and should be addressed, however, they are also playing with words and not doing anything to move forward.

The armed forces are feeling betrayed by our politicians at present and the covenant has been broken between those that serve and the countries people. As you are aware I have already spoken with Mark Harper MP about this but I believe it requires to be addressed by the leader of his party and I hope the future leader of this country. The website I've been running this issue on have had about 200,000 pings and service news letters have been covering it as well. I talk with many service personnel and their families as well TA soldiers and they feel that the current legislation is a disgraceful act by a countries government.

I also understand that Mr Cameron is a very busy person with lots to cover as the opposition party leader, but this is an issue that affects many service leavers and their families which requires his time and up most attention. I believe those that serve in Her Majesty's Armed Forces will see his support a good reason for electing his party in the next general election.

If more information is required on this issue then please email me or Peter could back brief on whats been going on and the issue in general.

Kind Regards

Hitback
 
Power posting.

Power posting.

I really hope this thread achieves what it set out to. Just a point to note 'Hitback's been a busy bee!'

196 posts on this thread in total to date - he posted 82 of them!

That equates to 41.8% of all 196.

God i'm brilliant - with a little too much time on my hands I know!

Happy days!
 
Thank you low manlies. I'm sure it will achieves its aim and yes I'm the person placing most of the information on here for others to read or get involved. Many people have already emailed their MPs asking them to support EDM 288 as well as signing the old petition. The current Legislation has been in place for almost 30 year and thus a change to the primary legislation would be required.

When I started this campaign off over two years ago (a year before that I was getting all the information together) I never thought It would get this far. In the past those in power forced anyone addressing it to back off or give up. I have been housed now but I still had to go through all the loops and some more just get housed.

It took Lord plimsole 15 years to get load lines on ships and he was already a Minister of the day. He was ridiculed by all of his politcial friends and Lords but continued to go on. His actions saved the lives of millions of sailors and stop the corruption of ship owners throughout the country. I wounder what the % of letters he had to write or information he had to show in relation to the response he got.
 
I have noticed Wiliam Hague MP has not sign this EDM. I believe thats for one reason only, thats to sit on the fence and not to upset local Councillors etc. If only more people from Catterick would email his office and tell him they expect him to show his support openly by signing EDM 288.

We can get the money for a mortgage; Full story Here.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=415343&in_page_id=1770

A record 30,075 people became insolvent between January and March, the highest number since records began in 1960. Full story here;

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=453468&in_page_id=1770

The fact that only 9% of army personnel own their own property is shocking and on leaving the forces will be first time buyers at the grand age of 40 years old after 22 years served. That why we must change this legislation now.

Hitback
 
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