Not much chatter about it on here, anyone claiming their 5k? Or less depending on the qual you have?
I will be, cher-ching!
I will be, cher-ching!
Welcome to E-Goat :: The Totally Unofficial Royal Air Force Rumour Network
Join our free community to unlock a range of benefits like:
- Post and participate in discussions.
- Send and receive private messages with other members.
- Respond to polls and surveys.
- Upload and share content.
- Gain access to exclusive features and tools.
Trending
This Week
View More Trending
unruly1986
Sergeant
- 732
- 28
- 34
Definitely going for the £2k. Need to see if I can gain IEng using a foundation degree plus experience. Fingers crossed..!
It's not due to be paid until March/April at the earliest, so plenty of time for them to withdraw it without spending a penny.
Or alternatively, decide that you'd all claimed illegally in 5 years time, despite following the rules and getting PSF sign off, and demand a massive repayment.
Or alternatively, decide that you'd all claimed illegally in 5 years time, despite following the rules and getting PSF sign off, and demand a massive repayment.
MrBojangles
LAC
- 31
- 6
- 0
Im looking at joining and then claiming - surprisingly enough IET are a little swamped with those new applications they have had since this was announced.
harry the df
LAC
- 77
- 0
- 0
Not seen any details of this. How is it going to work or are there any links???
Can an affiliate with imeche still claim anything or do u have to be fully qualified to do so
Flumpdaddy
LAC
- 91
- 8
- 23
Need to be a minimum of Cpl with EngTech, IEng or CEng registration. Just being a member of an institution isn't good enough. Given that most SAC(T) meet the requirements for EngTech it shouldn't be too hard to register.
Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
Norman the Storeman
QA Acolyte
- 885
- 16
- 0
I know of several SPs from non-engineering trades that have paid for PRAs out of their own pocket.
One of them has currently requested info from their HofB why Eng trades are receiving a financial reward and parity of treatment for other pinch point trades is not being applied.
Love it!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
One of them has currently requested info from their HofB why Eng trades are receiving a financial reward and parity of treatment for other pinch point trades is not being applied.
Love it!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Trusty Adjusty
Corporal
- 217
- 0
- 0
It’s well publicised nationally that recruitment and retention of engineers will be critical for at least a decade (dependent on source) maybe 2. The service is clearly attempting to improve the offer to the branch/trade with what limited resource it has. Part of me did chuckle at the thought that the rest of the service only got 2% so they could give techies more cash
IMHO they’ve missed a trick not applying 18 month retention to it. To Eng Tech level at least the process will be largely one of paperwork and thus most will get £2k at some point post OR4 (and it effectively becomes a £2k bonus for getting your tapes if you’re proactive as an SAC(T)).
Any gripes from non-eligible trades are laughable, there have been countless FRI in the last 10 years (Gen Tech and Fftr ring a bell) and it’s common knowledge that there are a significant number of trades who get paid well above the civvy average for comparable skills and responsibility (Admin/PTI/Chef for example).
The issue here is that it’s such a small initiative that I can’t see how it will have any effect on recruitment or retention. Anyone who’s staying in anyway will take it but given the vastly superior wages (£40k+ SAC(T) equiv) in industry (Trains/O&G etc) it’s the metaphorical equivalent of the hierarchy getting the donuts in for the lads - it’s nice, it’s appreciated but it doesn’t make you like them any more.
- 7,162
- 113
- 644
I always find it quite laughable when technicians compare themselves as under paid compared to fully trained, qualified and licensed civilian technicians in specific industries, and most other trades as over paid against what think are equivalent entry level roles.
A good individual from any trade will always do better on the outside than the inside, more so if they get professional qualifications, because they will be in demand and will be paid better.
Saying that, through the power of Facebook, I know people from my trade who have bottomed out on exit, some who are coasting and others who have done well for themselves, and I’m pretty certain most trades will have the same distribution, technician or otherwise.
Anyway, at these levels, £2k is that before tax?, the payment won’t really achieve anything, especially, with no return of service.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Trusty Adjusty
Corporal
- 217
- 0
- 0
The examples I give are accurate - average salaries of HR clerks and gym instructors are £20k - SAC(T) TG1 are leaving (in their droves depending on where you work) for nothing less than £40k with nothing but a woefully inadeuqate LinkedIn profile and an NVQ3 to their name.
Your point about good individuals doing well upon leaving is of course accurate in the main.
Diasagreeing with your third point, it is my first hand experience that poor to average technicians are leaving who historically would’ve ended up in lesser paid work. These same guys are currently commanding 30-50% increases on their military salaries because of the chronic shortage of technicians/engineers.
Whether it’s palatable or not we are underpaid. Given the current engineering recruitment landscape we can’t just be compared salary wise with licensed aircraft engineers because most leave for other industries. Unfortunately the RAF is waking up to this 10 years too late and now with one arm behind its back as a woefully inadequate pay and retention system, coupled with the removal of the pension trap post 12 years service, ensures even our very best leave for better financial remuneration without the hassle of IRT/Guard and a lethargic promotion system.
Your point about good individuals doing well upon leaving is of course accurate in the main.
Diasagreeing with your third point, it is my first hand experience that poor to average technicians are leaving who historically would’ve ended up in lesser paid work. These same guys are currently commanding 30-50% increases on their military salaries because of the chronic shortage of technicians/engineers.
Whether it’s palatable or not we are underpaid. Given the current engineering recruitment landscape we can’t just be compared salary wise with licensed aircraft engineers because most leave for other industries. Unfortunately the RAF is waking up to this 10 years too late and now with one arm behind its back as a woefully inadequate pay and retention system, coupled with the removal of the pension trap post 12 years service, ensures even our very best leave for better financial remuneration without the hassle of IRT/Guard and a lethargic promotion system.
- 7,162
- 113
- 644
I think we need to disagree on this one then, real life experience suggests that you’re over egging you’re side and being disparaging about everyone else.
I’m not saying there aren’t £40k roles, however, I am guessing that these will be as subcon labour or include a bit of overtime for an unqualified technician to reach this level.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I’m not saying there aren’t £40k roles, however, I am guessing that these will be as subcon labour or include a bit of overtime for an unqualified technician to reach this level.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Trusty Adjusty
Corporal
- 217
- 0
- 0
More than happy to show you the same group emails and LinkedIn messages that SAC(T) receive on a weekly basis for rolling stock jobs on £40k+ working 4 on 4 off.
I’ve got absolutely zero agenda for being disparaging about anyone else, this is simply the factual engineering retention environment the RAF is competing (and losing) in now. No equivalent civilian organisation pays the HR clerk almost parity salary as an engineer/technician. I couldn’t care less if any other trade is overpaid - good luck to them. If I don’t like it that much I would indeed PVR. My comments were in response to the previous poster insinuating that technician trades were somehow getting unfair treatment (EPRA).
I’ve got absolutely zero agenda for being disparaging about anyone else, this is simply the factual engineering retention environment the RAF is competing (and losing) in now. No equivalent civilian organisation pays the HR clerk almost parity salary as an engineer/technician. I couldn’t care less if any other trade is overpaid - good luck to them. If I don’t like it that much I would indeed PVR. My comments were in response to the previous poster insinuating that technician trades were somehow getting unfair treatment (EPRA).
- 7,162
- 113
- 644
The point I’m trying to make is, that it is that the RAF isn’t only non competitive for engineers it’s not competitive for most roles when it comes to the average and above performers no matter what their job, PTIs excepted.
As soon as anyone has a bit of experience and PRA, not talking about the CGLI and similar post noms that most SNECs get at Halton, then life will be better remunerated on the outside if you put the effort in.
As a result only the weary, low performers and highly engaged will remain if it’s all ability money.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
To put this into perspective, not a single AV SAC(T) has returned from overseas working on the shiny new platform in Norfolk that hasn't PVR'd.
Every single one of them put their notice in (Mainly to do with working with the abysmal USMC and the useless/weak RN management we had).
1 now resides back in the states with his wife, 1 has just started the aforementioned £40k+ job on the trains with Bombardier, 1 has been offered a job working on Farming Machinery for £40k, another has an interview with a top F1 team and also has a job offer from Bombardier and the rest are happily in the resettlement process.
All of the experienced AV tradesmen from over the pond are now gone/leaving very soon, already quickly replaced with fresh out the box Cosford SAC(T)s.
All I'm hearing is similar stories from other platforms, the RAF's buggered when it comes to retention.
Every single one of them put their notice in (Mainly to do with working with the abysmal USMC and the useless/weak RN management we had).
1 now resides back in the states with his wife, 1 has just started the aforementioned £40k+ job on the trains with Bombardier, 1 has been offered a job working on Farming Machinery for £40k, another has an interview with a top F1 team and also has a job offer from Bombardier and the rest are happily in the resettlement process.
All of the experienced AV tradesmen from over the pond are now gone/leaving very soon, already quickly replaced with fresh out the box Cosford SAC(T)s.
All I'm hearing is similar stories from other platforms, the RAF's buggered when it comes to retention.
Trusty Adjusty
Corporal
- 217
- 0
- 0
Gilbert this is indeed reflected on other platforms.
The bean counters appear to have realised a bit late that you can’t replace an experienced Q’d/Type rated bean with a brand new (green) bean.
Would not surprise me at all if they look at direct recruitment for those with civvy experience at Cpl/Sgt level.
Some form of engineering spine post SNCO (Professional Aviator equivalent) where engineers can elect to be paid for their experience and skills, be retained as an SNCO Engineer Sgt (maybe some kind of interview process similar to GE) but a pay scale that rises over time in increments to WO equivalent pay. Those with management aptitude streamed along the current system or similar into management and project roles.
We probably lose a lot of our best handskill experience for fear of desk jobs at SNCO and beyond and not everyone wants the unpredictability of GE life.
The bean counters appear to have realised a bit late that you can’t replace an experienced Q’d/Type rated bean with a brand new (green) bean.
Would not surprise me at all if they look at direct recruitment for those with civvy experience at Cpl/Sgt level.
Some form of engineering spine post SNCO (Professional Aviator equivalent) where engineers can elect to be paid for their experience and skills, be retained as an SNCO Engineer Sgt (maybe some kind of interview process similar to GE) but a pay scale that rises over time in increments to WO equivalent pay. Those with management aptitude streamed along the current system or similar into management and project roles.
We probably lose a lot of our best handskill experience for fear of desk jobs at SNCO and beyond and not everyone wants the unpredictability of GE life.
- 2,182
- 63
- 132
Not really over-egging....
I was ready to leave the RAF as a Cpl at my 15 year point. I had prepared by getting my (then) CAA A&C Licence for jet helicopters. I eventually left as a Sgt (Rigga) in ‘99 and went straight into a 20% rise. Shortly after that I realised that I was being ripped off.
After a few years learning the real job of managing aircraft maintenance I left for another job, doing 1/3 of my first job, and for another 45% rise.
Since then I have more than doubled my salary (I’ve never worked shifts since leaving the RAF)
As a Quality Manager/LAE in a very small company I am on Wg Cdr salary - I have been on senior Grp Capt’s salary....Im still an LAE.
I was ready to leave the RAF as a Cpl at my 15 year point. I had prepared by getting my (then) CAA A&C Licence for jet helicopters. I eventually left as a Sgt (Rigga) in ‘99 and went straight into a 20% rise. Shortly after that I realised that I was being ripped off.
After a few years learning the real job of managing aircraft maintenance I left for another job, doing 1/3 of my first job, and for another 45% rise.
Since then I have more than doubled my salary (I’ve never worked shifts since leaving the RAF)
As a Quality Manager/LAE in a very small company I am on Wg Cdr salary - I have been on senior Grp Capt’s salary....Im still an LAE.