How can we recruit into TG4?

[PD TC]

The recent ACOS manning visit to Episkopi highlighted that TG4 is one of the major pinch point trades suffering from recruitment problems. We are already feeling the knock-on affect of this in the lack of promotion; we can’t promote people if there is no-one to come up and replace them. (Yes I know there are other reasons, too)

The question is ‘What can we do?’

Instead of coming up with lists of things that are wrong with TG4, does anyone have any real suggestions. Not being too familiar with them, but I wondered whether we can hit the next generation of IM/OM/Techs/Uuurms using social networks such as MySpace or Facebook etc. As I say, I’m not too familiar with them, but wonder whether this may be more on the wavelength of today’s potentials?

If ever there was a case for helping ourselves out of the hole, this must be it. What does everyone think?

Phil

There are three types of people in this world: those who make things happen, those who watch things happen and those who wonder what happened. We all have a choice. You can decide which type of person you want to be. I have always chosen to be in the first group. Mary Kay Ash

 

[kev827]

At cosford there is a group of guys and girls that work on a "displays" team that go out to trade fairs and large shows trying to sell the new trade...i know i am on it...

The idea is to get people out on the ground that know about the trade rather than expecting the guys from the AFCO's to know all about what TG4 is and what we do....we have just been granted some money to buy some new kit to take out with us...as we all know our trade isn't the most glamours not when you are sat next to the Regt with guns that people can play with but we are trying...

if anyone knows someone or works in an AFCO themselves and they would like us to come a long to shows send me a message and I will pass on my contact details and maybe somthing can be arranged

 

[Mug?]

Why bother?

Why bother?

I know you are trying to be positive, but really why waste the effort.
The policy at the minute seems to be get people cheaper on contract.
The trade is a non starter anyway with DII/F on the horizon.
A complete waste of resources.

When I joined, it sounded interesting in the brochures, lots of kit, lots of places to work, variety, high skill set, an elite technician.

If you want ideas...
Make the job an engineering job, make it interesting, with a bit of prestige.

If I were to look at it now, its an army job under an RAF badge. Why not choose the Army, with a more streamed promotion and career process, less gimickry (is that a word?) They've been doing the whole expeditionry stuff for longer.

Its not just getting new guys in thats a problem its keeping them in. How did the last lot of trainee JTs feel when they found out they would not be JTs, how do the new OMs feel that they will not be gong into a CIS Tech stream. How do the SAC(T)s feel that SAC TG11 have been getting picked up over more qualified and capable people.

 

[beannz]

How do the SAC(T)s feel that SAC TG11 have been getting picked up over more qualified and capable people.

How have the SAC TG11 been picked up over SAC(T)s? It was two seperate boards one for SAC OM's and one for SAC Techs!

 

[Rugby-Jock-Lad]

Your missing the point of this thread Mug?. All the stuff you have mentioned is in other threads and you also are correct in what you are saying. But PD TC is right...TG4 is with us and it's here to stay. He's trying to positive as best as possible.
In response to PD TC however. It's not our job to do the AFCOs or the Cosford TG4 displays teams job however. We have our own jobs and families to take care of before we start 'voluntarily' marching around a town centre with blues and brochures. It may look good on your assessment but wouldn't do your marriage any good I'm sure.

 

[Rugby-Jock-Lad]

Beanz..pls expand. I'm an assimilated TG3 3/4 JNCO. Like to hear your story about the SACs.

 

[mad_collie]

If this turns into another peanut/techie slagging session, it will be closed. Take it to PM.::/:

 

[CIS Tech]

The main problem, as I see it, is the type of people who walk into the recruiting office.

There are those who are clever enough to be Techies but don't want to risk becoming an IM so they go for TG1 & 2.

Then there are those who see a chance at being a CIS Tech but aren't really bright enough so don't make the grade.

Which leaves us one option; lower the required aptitude thus gimping the trade for the future.

Or - now wait for it - go back to TG3 and TG11. DT_Xtremez_42: DT_Xtremez_06:


We can't really sell a trade that we don't really support ourselves.

 

[Rugby-Jock-Lad]

Too late for that CIS Tech. The damage is already done. Still...Only 12 years to go for a pension. But on a serious note. Kev827 is probably best placed to answer this. Are they taking their TG4 displays into schools and/or colleges where Electronics/Computer skills are being taught or just going to general job fairs etc? The RAF is still a good job despite the attempts of such people in the MOD/RAF heirachy to destroy specific trades such as ourselves. And even if we can recruit such good personnel for 9 years it is a good start. The days of 22 yrs is slowly but surely becoming a thing of the past for youngsters.

 

[beannz]

Beanz..pls expand. I'm an assimilated TG3 3/4 JNCO. Like to hear your story about the SACs.

The SAC's are two different trades so they both have seperate promotion boards.

 

[3Chordwonder]

3Chord Jr is currently training to be TG4 - he's under no illusions.
He plabs to stick it out for 4 or 5 years, see what his prospects are down the tech route then opt out for Sgt aircrew if needs be.

 

[Mug?]

Exactly

Exactly

3Chord Jr is currently training to be TG4 - he's under no illusions.
He plabs to stick it out for 4 or 5 years, see what his prospects are down the tech route then opt out for Sgt aircrew if needs be.

I think there have been a few illusions in the past; about returning to training after 18 months, being able to influence which side they go.

There is little incentive to stay in. I know a lot of guys who have the same give it a go attitude. I have stayed through loyalty (misplaced it appears?) but I don't see it in the new lads. I was only messed around once I had been in a while and felt I owed the RAF something.
Until we get the pride in the job and feeling of respect back we will suffer the same recruitment problems as Nurses had.

People need to want to join the RAF first and then find a trade that they will enjoy. Not join to be a computer maintainer, in a company called the ROYAL AIR FORCE.

 

[ITgeek]

the raf careers web site information on CIS specialist is ok , but at first glance over it its not very appealing . The information with the girl going going on about being a help desk person is very off putting . You just think why do that when i could be doing it in civvy street for a bit more money.

it not untill i went into the afco and got handed the two page information sheet that i found out what i could be doing "I say that with an edge of apprehension" becuase nothing is ever as good as it seems.

but hey , application is nearly finished weighting on GPnotes and then getting my start date. just have to see what it throws at me !.

also all my uni mates think i am mad for joining up any military wing to do this type of job .

 

[ITgeek]

the raf site mentions that cosford is microsoft and cisco accreditated . which that means anything towards being certified y those two companies i would tout that to potentual uni applicants.

come to the raf for 4 years and we will give you hand on experiance , civialian quals and pay you for the pleasure.

instead of 4 years of a computing degree where you will come out with no experiance and find it will take you about 18months to get a job and be in stupid amounts of debt

Thats where i stand at the momment . 2years of uni being taught stuff from standard grade level . and seeing 4th year mates come out and be told that they have no experiance to geta job. that leaves me tothink whats the point! of uni

 

[PD TC]

kev827 has made a valuable point, recruitment is now taking a varied approach e.g. AFCO, Presentation Teams and the local initiative role which they are working towards. (There's also a cash incentive scheme for you to sell your children or brother/sister too).

I also totally agree with ITgeek in that our ‘representation’ on the RAF website of Melissa Inglis on a helpdesk is appalling. Forgive me, is that not disappearing to DII too? Don’t helpdesk civvies have a better deal? Why go through 12 months of training for the same job/pay?

Rugby-Jock-Lad, agree it is not our job. But what if we can help? Surely that’s better for us?

I really want to try and keep this on thread and look at what we can do. Does anyone see any possibilities in using technology to attract more people? If research is to be believed, teenagers spend on average 25 hours per month on the Internet (Gez Smith 2007, delib). I would venture that prospective CIS tradespeople would be spending even longer. Surely we can tap into this?

I remember (vaguely) walking into the CIO wanting to be a pilot. One eye test later and I was looking at other areas. I knew I liked to take things apart (and put back together, with spares), but what sold it for me was the old TCW video. And I loved spending my first 7 years real service on the Wing.

What we need to think about is what attracts today’s young impressionable 17yr olds?

The answer is out there!

Phil

Determination gives you the resolve to keep going in spite of the roadblocks that lay before you. Denis Waitley

 

[kev827]

Kev827 is probably best placed to answer this. Are they taking their TG4 displays into schools and/or colleges where Electronics/Computer skills are being taught or just going to general job fairs etc?

This has been the first full year for the display team and as i have said before none of us a recruiters and its been a steep learning curve. The hardest thing that we have faced is trying to show what we do as a trade, as we are all aware most of the work that we do is in the background of the airforce.

We have tried to highlight what we have on offer and how we might be able to assist the AFCO's. This year we have done presentations at general trade fairs, airshows and county shows. With differing results I will admit.

However next year with the new equipment that we are currently buy we should have a more intresting stand and haev something that younger people can relate to. We are producing with the co-operation of the Photo school here at Cosford a No1 Radio School DVD to be shown at all the displays, it will show all the mircosoft/CISCO stuff as well as RADAR, Radio and the deployment training that the students do over on the airfield. Along side the DVD we will be have a mini radar system that works on a laptop and picks up real time returns for aircraft transponders, this is eaiser than taking one of the watchmans, also a freq scanner so that we can listen to aircraft/tower communications. As well as some kits from Maplins that allow people to build real life systems such as rxers and txers.

If anyone out there might be able to offer any ideas as to what else to include please let me know.

 

[MAINJAFAD]

Kev827 is probably best placed to answer this. Are they taking their TG4 displays into schools and/or colleges where Electronics/Computer skills are being taught or just going to general job fairs etc?

This has been the first full year for the display team and as i have said before none of us a recruiters and its been a steep learning curve. The hardest thing that we have faced is trying to show what we do as a trade, as we are all aware most of the work that we do is in the background of the airforce.

We have tried to highlight what we have on offer and how we might be able to assist the AFCO's. This year we have done presentations at general trade fairs, airshows and county shows. With differing results I will admit.

However next year with the new equipment that we are currently buy we should have a more intresting stand and haev something that younger people can relate to. We are producing with the co-operation of the Photo school here at Cosford a No1 Radio School DVD to be shown at all the displays, it will show all the mircosoft/CISCO stuff as well as RADAR, Radio and the deployment training that the students do over on the airfield. Along side the DVD we will be have a mini radar system that works on a laptop and picks up real time returns for aircraft transponders, this is eaiser than taking one of the watchmans, also a freq scanner so that we can listen to aircraft/tower communications. As well as some kits from Maplins that allow people to build real life systems such as rxers and txers.

If anyone out there might be able to offer any ideas as to what else to include please let me know.

Did Cosford get that LabVolt Radar Trainer in any numbers ? Locking took the first trial one the RAF got a Royal Tournament in 1998 and a lot of kids were interested in it (they can see the targets move in real life as well on the screen).

 

[Rugby-Jock-Lad]

Kev 827. Just a quick query! Why are you teaching Radar? Don't mean to sound AP geeky but the CIS bible (Don't know about sec issues so will keep this brief) Lft 1311 states that newly passed out TG4 recruits can only do specific tasks. Radar and comms specifically affecting aircraft is not on the agenda for them as it affects aircraft . They will be awarded a Depth A*. This isn't a slagging. Just a query like I say. Is this in preparation for TG4 recruits been selected for FT training in the Tech stream?

 

[NFTR]

I'm sure I heard that one train of thought was to drop the CIS title (in relation to recruitment and reaching out to potential TG4) and try and sell the posts as more Information & Communications Technolgy focused. I believe this is because any of the future geeks will be familiar with ICT and it's meaning rather than CIS. They would also be aware of where ICT sits in the ITIL framework. After all, I always assumed ITIL would be what TG4 are adopting as best practice.

 

[kev827]

I'll answer some of the points in the three post's above...Cosford does have th Labvolt radars 5 or 6 of them...we took it to the cosford airshow and it was a great hit..the guys were busy all day..its one of those things that get people intrested and like was said things move on the screen and people can see that the radar head is moving its a really good demo tool to take with us..the only down side is the size of the thing.

We don't teach as such more explain what we as a whole trade can do, you are right OM's don't go to the AD sites as far as I am aware might be wrong but they do go to ground radios and some have been back on MASCOT & ILS courses. It is aimed more for the future "if you want to be a tech then this is what you could be doing" type statements to people.

The CIS name is going to be droped in favour of ICT, so we have been told ICT is understood by the public more than CIS thats all.

Any other points/questions just send them in and i will try to answer them...