Kick in the teeth for medics

[Sniffer]

Med Assits??? Oh you mean RAF Medics!

Would you like to elaborate on your "disgrace" comment.

 

[dan1966]

Erm, what disgrace comment would that be?

 

[Sniffer]

Dan, dont worry about it. The mighty Penfold has deleted the comment, just when I was hoping for a bit of a argument.

Hi guys,

I'm currently 3/4 of the way through applying as a Medical Assistant (got my medical/fitness test in 3 weeks), and I've just read through this thread.

From what I gather, the Medics have just missed out on the higher pay band - except when OOA (god it took me ages to twig what that meant!) - and that they have just suspended the training for medics to upgrade to a paramedic, pending the decision on whether they do/don't need a degree. This is what I was ultimatly looking to do. What are your thoughts on the likelyhood of this being unsuspended soon or if the RAF would be willing or able to put me through uni?!

Thanks in advance for any replies.

You are correct in thinking that RAF Medics have missed out on going onto the higher payband, but how close it was I dont know. Jeez it seems anyone can get it these days and personally I think most medics deserve it. Unfortunately you cant just pick out the good ones!

OK as for the degree issue, I'm not sure about that situation but I will do a bit of digging for you. However I would hazard a guess that if the Paramedics do need a degree you can bet your bottom dollar that the RAF will stop recruiting from RAF Medics and will pursue civvies who are already qualified, or already have a degree.

I could well be talking out of my hoop, but as I said I'll try and get the relevent info and will PM you!

 

[medic-tom]

So does any one have an opo on any stage of a paramedic course now or has the whole course been put on hold? Also is there any form of trade pay for those that have passed?
Tom

 

[dan1966]

Cool, cheers Sniffer.

 

[penfold93]

So does any one have an opo on any stage of a paramedic course now or has the whole course been put on hold? Also is there any form of trade pay for those that have passed?
Tom

The whole issue is being looked at some have been qualified to technician stage and are awaiting conformation the course will continue for them to qualify as Paramedics, the others in the pipeline are also awaiting new wrt when they start and as soon as a set % of medics are qualified as paramedics then a trade pay review will be initiated currently they get no specific 'trade pay'

 

[medic-tom]

Well it will be a while before i start worrying about it as only start basic again in may! Thanks for the info fellas,
Tom

 

[Talk Wrench]

Sorry to interupt on this thread, but I would like to say a few things.

My own point of view is that the trade of Med Assist should be dissolved and replaced with the trade of of Medical Proffessional.

The medical proffessional should be at least technician trained encompassing the ranks of SAC to Corporal. The next level should be the degree trained SAC/CPL who will acheive SGT paramedic status by the virtue of training and experience.

The medical admin side should become an extension of the Admin trade itself.


Simplistic but realistic.


TW

 

[penfold93]

Sorry to interupt on this thread, but I would like to say a few things.

My own point of view is that the trade of Med Assist should be dissolved and replaced with the trade of of Medical Proffessional.

The medical proffessional should be at least technician trained encompassing the ranks of SAC to Corporal. The next level should be the degree trained SAC/CPL who will acheive SGT paramedic status by the virtue of training and experience.

The medical admin side should become an extension of the Admin trade itself.


Simplistic but realistic.



TW

Seeings both trades are undermanned and now you are asking for a trade to have 'degree' trained SAC-Cpl it is not as simplistic as you allude to. Even nurses do not have to be degree trained and Lab Techs and Radiographers do their degree as part of their training and ask for a minimum of 3 A- Levels to start with.

Recruiting would be a nightmare and what would happen to the hundreds of medics already qualified, with due respect to the shiney's running a medical practice alongside the SMO requires a fair degree of medical knowledge and years of experience especially with the introduction of DMICP and the requirement to dispense medications etc.

Another question would be where would these multitude of degree paramedics be based to allow continual CPD and prevent skill fade the majority of med centres no longer provide 24 hr cover and the medics we have struggle to get enough 'hands on'

Whilst you may think it is simplistic it is not that easy.

 

[Sniffer]

If I remember rightly at my last Unit when the Paramedic idea was in its infancy we had an scrambled egg call in to give all medical trades a bit of a brief on what the proposal was. It was suggested then that in order to retain these Paramedics they should be given the rank of SNCO (similar to Aircrew).

There are a number of problems with that.

At present when there is an emergency on Unit, Duty Medic and Doc attend, but whilst there is not an emergency Duty Medic is doing their day to day "admin" type duties.

How would a Med Centre utilise their Paramedic personnel when they are not on an emergency? They would have them carrying out Admin type duties of course. Therefore where is the sense in having a SNCO doing the day to day tasks that an SAC normally would carry out?

In an ideal world all medics would be trained to paramedic standard, with the relevant qualifications, but unfortunately this would be both expensive and unrealistic, because in order to keep up CPD they will have to be attending emergencies on a regular basis, and I for one, cannot remember the last one we had on Unit.

I do however agree with TW in so far as make the Med Admin role, just that. An Admin bod working in the Med Centre. Not a trained Medic spending 95% of their time doing admin tasks and therefore risking skill fade.

Again an ideal scenario, but having trained them to paramedic level give them the rank of A/Cpl (similar to Scuffers) and have them see and treat patients on a regular basis. A Medics clinic for want of a better term. When a patient calls for an appointment, if it is something that does not necessarily need a Doc or Nurse, ie: redressing a wound, routine innoculation, athletes foot, twisted sock etc then the Medic with Duty Doctor to fall back on if necessary should be treating them. After all this is what the are expected to do in the sandpit.

Ain't never gunna happen though! DT_Xtremez_26:

 

[dogfondler]

When a patient calls for an appointment, if it is something that does not necessarily need a Doc or Nurse, ie: redressing a wound, routine innoculation, athletes foot, twisted sock etc then the Medic with Duty Doctor to fall back on if necessary should be treating them.

All the above-mentioned conditions come under a nurse's remit, not a paramedic's.

 

[Sniffer]

All the above-mentioned conditions come under a nurse's remit, not a paramedic's.

I'm aware of that but why cant a Medic deal with it? They have after all been trained, to do all this and they will be expected to do it when deployed. My point is that at present they risk suffering from massive skill fade.

 

[smallesttradeintheRAF]

All the above-mentioned conditions come under a nurse's remit, not a paramedic's.

The Navy have a brilliant way of dealing with this - on boats smaller than a aircraft/helicopter carrier (or commando carrier) they rarely have a doctor. The Medic onboard diagnosis, deals with and treats virtually all medical conditions. Obviously surgery may be a problem but even on the larger boats the duty medic deals with most of it.

The main problem with the RAF Medic is the complete lack of actual medical practice they undertake in their routine job. No duty medic, no seeing the medic before the doctor as the Navy do (and they do this very effectively - being able again to prescribed basic meds and sign personnel off for a couple of days). This lack of out of hours service removes 90% of any practice they could of had.

I agree that Med Admin, as with Dental Admin could easily be taken over by the Admin trade.

As for qualifications - There are currently two non comissioned trades in the RAF that required Degrees in order to practice - Radiographers and Biomedical Scientists. These trades have an initial training period of up to five years before the are deployable, not the 6/12 month training undertaken by a medic.

On the question of high pay band - if you're deployable then yes you should have it. I do however believe that this should be linked to CPD in some way to encourage further training/education. In order to get an Accelarated Incremental Point, we have to undertake a Master's Degree. For a Medic, this isn't the case. In fact, correct me if I'm wrong, but undertaking a GCSE will get them a AIP. Surely there needs to be some parity between the qualifications and skill level to do a job and wages seem to be the most obvious way.

A question for discussion could be - Are RAF Medics even needed? Admin/Guard duties on Base, Admin/Guard duties on Deployments (Where does an RAF deployment go without a Doctor and Nurse). When they do deploy, they are normally in a med centre 500 yards from a field hospital.

Paramedics are a different thing altogether This is what the Army should be doing with it's Medics. The are the ones that go out on the ground and need all the support and help that we can give them..