Lean at Lyneham

[Rigga]

Goatblower (!) the answer is NO - See

http://www.airmech.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=4668

A recent coversation.

It the link doesn't work go to "Airmech/Employment/Employment Advice/Yet another airman..."


I disagree with the Baldy Chief that second line experience is really needed at First Line - many other units have done without - as did the F3 fleet before the airframe bays got their super-squiggly machines to test Actuators with (Can't remember the names now!) It may be a poorer performance but it is possible.

This 'Difference' may be the long term aim of what is being driven from the Top; And the two lines will be inexorably Split (did I say that?) as in the good 'ol US of A's Air Force and Army - with its followers of Kawasaki/Lockheed/Boeing/Bell Industry contract engineers to do the fixing at Rear Bases / Workshops.
To add fuel to this end/aim; The (projected) poor performance, of this LEAN situation, could be put to the "Powers That Be" as the main reason to convert to Civvy-power at Second, and subsequent, Lines. (If that makes sense?)

 

[Tarquin Farquar]

Couldnt agree more that Lyneham is all wrong as it stands....as regards aircrew/groundcrew divide & identities etc etc

in comparison, having spent 2yrs on Tristars, everyone was in 1 shed. Aircrew, groundcrew, G.E's, Stewards, Civvy Role Equippers. Put simply it worked

Everyone knew exactly what was going on, & you got to know people very quickly seeing them around day in day out!.

As it stands now at Lyneham, certain groundcrew can go months without seeing any aircrew apart from yet another debrief when they've broke something..We have no identity whatsoever 7 it feels like working at a bus Garage TBH

 

[wobbly]

As it stands now at Lyneham, certain groundcrew can go months without seeing any aircrew apart from yet another debrief when they've broke something..We have no identity whatsoever 7 it feels like working at a bus Garage TBH

Hehehe, if your a J type Techie at lyneham you dont usually see aircrew as the debrief is done electronically from a RMM memory card......so you dont get to know them that way. The only way you actually get to know them is when you get out on a deployment, and funny enough, it works then as well. However, you return to Lyneham and your seperated again, and your back to being the Kwik Fit Fitters that Lyneham seems hellbent on making the techies feel like.

"Its always been like that at Lyneham" as the saying goes.......Yawn. Bring on the changes where its needed I say. Aircrew/Groundcrew Sqns would be the way forward, improving working relationships, morale and camaraderie between us all.

 

[wobbly]

If there are any aircrew out there following this thread could you please express your feelings on this matter? What effect has LEAN had on your side of things?

 

[Verbage De'rivell]

So we stand on the eve of a new dawn. The WO's and FS's have carved up the manning and decided where we are all going back to.

Where do you think you will end up?

 

[sumps]

Well I have got my little cosy corner! Who else got what? Has any one seen what the battle of the grown-ups produced, any shockers or is all happy in the garden of EGDL Bitburger you must know whats going on - do tell...

 

[Jack Jarvis]

The officers in charge of the LEAN process may have bounced me from pillar to post in their effort to cause me maximum disruption, whilst costing the taxpayer hundreds of thousands of pounds for the privilege. However, YOU HAVE FAILED... I kept my old locker key!

 

[SirPeterHardingsLovechild]

Hello everyone. Just registered.

Jack, about that locker key...

 

[Bitburger]

Hello everyone. Just registered.

Jack, about that locker key...

SirPeter's Welcome to the goat, we look forward to the wealth of tales that you can bring to this forum

 

[Jack Jarvis]

Hello everyone. Just registered.

Jack, about that locker key...

Did I say key? I meant KEYS

 

[shoutingwind]

Aircrew/Groundcrew Sqns would be the way forward, improving working relationships, morale and camaraderie between us all.

And yet techies who do stick their necks out and befriend our winged brethren are branded as groupies or ar$e lickers and are cast out from the techie fraternity. Or us lowley groundies are ignored by the growbags- sometimes i feel like just another part of GSE.

Is there a happy medium? well if involves beercalls then count me in..................

 

[fat lazy techie]

If you don't want to be ignored by the aircrew then I suggest you grow a couple of lumps on your chest and have your arse enlarged. You can't fail.

 

[oh4fuxsake]

Lean everywhere...

Lean everywhere...

And everywhere Lean. Been there, done that, put the case forward, got 'sacked' for having 'too much experience'. Now 'walk the Green Mile' at an airfield somewhere in Norfolk (not closing). Sage advice (great fellow he is) from an antibody (look it up if unsure...maybe it's Simpler irony). Comply. Just comply. Then sit back and chuckle. Also, for those who are driving this forward (Junior Millado's who need their ticks in boxes etc etc) are the ones whos jobs are going to slip away. Less blokes needs less 'bosses'. Still, pension in the bank, tranche 3 approaching. Nice floor!

 

[spaniels ears]

Wobbly,
happy to put the aircrew perspective for you. We know the pressures that you're working under. I'm on the K fleet, so i do speak to the line(or flecs, or whoever the f**k i'm meant to speak to this week) regularly & i think it's frightening what's happening to your manning. All i can say is i'd rather have a safe, serviceable aircraft, and if it's late for it's slot because you haven't got the blokes to do the job then so be it. The only way to highlight the problems that we've got is when we can't generate sorties. I'm probably as guilty as the next bloke when it comes to turning a blind eye and accepting minor snags 'til the end of the day, but equally, i've dug my heels in when i'm not happy with things that plainly aren't right. On a different thread, if we did work as a squadron (as we do at 1312) i'm sure things would be better for all concerned. We would get to know each other better, we'd have some proper aircrew/groundcrew banter and we'd all benefit. Maybe you blokes would get some decent trips out of it? (sounds crazy i know!) To sum up, we know you're working hard, but the day you try and do too much and jeapordize flight safety will be a dangerous day.
I was at Valley in 96 when the weather ship crashed. Not enough groundies trying to do too much work. Those guys didn't get any thanks for trying to soldier on. Sad times and food for thought.

 

[Stax]

All i can say is i'd rather have a safe, serviceable aircraft, and if it's late for it's slot because you haven't got the blokes to do the job then so be it. The only way to highlight the problems that we've got is when we can't generate sorties.

Recentley DiStaffed at an exercise. One of the injects was dirty fuel, which caused the (CPX) A/C about to be generated, to be grounded. However we had to endex the inject early to allow the crews to walk so as to give AirOps "valuable training". What about training in how to cope in the event the aircraft are grounded, seem's that even in training we have to be seen to be 100%.

 

[Rigga]

Centralised Engineering

Centralised Engineering

Although I am no longer in the RAF I still have lots of contacts in various places and I am still in the aviation industry.

I hear that Odiham is going to Centralised Engineering & Maintenance too, to the point of moving 18 sqn out of a "recently" constructed and purpose built hangar to be nearer to the Engineering centre - for ease of engineering access of course.

This may all be very well for the economics of current trends, and once again aircraft maintenance is losing out. But - If it's good for the Goose? - it's good for the Gander!

Given the current drive for computer technology, and combined with large cost-cutting tactics, within a few years aircrews should also be merging too!

It is surely possible that crews could be given a Task/Mission to complete and allocated an aircraft (and alternate) to use, even if it means co-ordinating aircraft and crews to fly the same missions _ They dont need to be based at the same place - just told where to meet - and all from a central location. This could possibly be at a UK central location making Forward Controllers and mission planners, etc, detached from the Main Operating Bases. Just like moving Pawns about a board really - but without the personal touch of knowing who your moving.

This would fall into the Governments way of thinking (by removing any existing sub-structure from all aspects of business to drive the costs down) and, I am sure, has already been part of the Purple-isation of the Forces.
This would, at least, save the cost of many superfluous squadron badges and eventually save the cost of at least two services' uniform patterns/designs/colours.

So! To me, the answer is to start with doing away with "Squadrons" completely and only manage aircraft fleets and qualified crew (Note: many commercial crews only find out who is rostered for a flight on arrival at some form of "Ops Desk").

Don't forget - Tony and Gordon know that pilots fly "airplanes" and mechanics fix them.
They don't know of anything else that any of you do - and it doesn't matter to them anyway.

 

[wobbly]

Wobbly,
happy to put the aircrew perspective for you. We know the pressures that you're working under. I'm on the K fleet, so i do speak to the line(or flecs, or whoever the f**k i'm meant to speak to this week) regularly & i think it's frightening what's happening to your manning. All i can say is i'd rather have a safe, serviceable aircraft, and if it's late for it's slot because you haven't got the blokes to do the job then so be it. The only way to highlight the problems that we've got is when we can't generate sorties. I'm probably as guilty as the next bloke when it comes to turning a blind eye and accepting minor snags 'til the end of the day, but equally, i've dug my heels in when i'm not happy with things that plainly aren't right. On a different thread, if we did work as a squadron (as we do at 1312) i'm sure things would be better for all concerned. We would get to know each other better, we'd have some proper aircrew/groundcrew banter and we'd all benefit. Maybe you blokes would get some decent trips out of it? (sounds crazy i know!) To sum up, we know you're working hard, but the day you try and do too much and jeapordize flight safety will be a dangerous day.
I was at Valley in 96 when the weather ship crashed. Not enough groundies trying to do too much work. Those guys didn't get any thanks for trying to soldier on. Sad times and food for thought.

1312, ah......those were the days 3 tours there and every one of em a good time with both aircrew and groundcrew mucking in and making the time fly by.

Thanks for your comments....

Flight safety will not be compromised and you will now be seeing more and more aircraft missing sorties due to manpower problems. At present there are actually trade desks empty during certain shifts as there simply isnt tradesmen available. This is the first time Ive seen this in 19 1/2 years of service and I am appalled and saddened by what has happened.

As for the Aircrew/Groundcrew idea, its nice to know you fellas would be up for it. However, at a recent briefing the question was asked but was shot down in flames with the answer "We dont know what we will be calling the lines in the new year, but an aircrew/groundcrew squadron will never happen" Strange, but it I for one cannot understand why not. Is it just Lyneham that has its own head so far wedged up its own jacksi or am I just missing an obvious reason?

The LEAN Machine has buggered Lyneham, or highlighted the real problems that have hindered it for so many years. So cheer us all up and give us Squadrons with both aircrew and groundcrew, and get a happy workforce that would go to the end of the earth for each other....well almost You never know, it might just turn into a winner!!

Your comments pleeeaassee.

 

[shoutingwind]

If you don't want to be ignored by the aircrew then I suggest you grow a couple of lumps on your chest and have your arse enlarged. You can't fail.

i'm way ahead of you dude- already done that.

at least we'll be getting 24/30 and 47/LXX back, thats gotta be an improvement. the only problem now is us j guys have started to get on with the k guys and now we have to leave them

 

[Stax]

Hot off the press, Lean may be slipping as a certain FJ unit in the Rutland area is having problems and is (possibly) reverting to the original style of management and graft. It has slipped in other places whilst the high heidyins reassess the amount of people leaving due to being pi55ed on (and off). Anyone else heard anything more recent?

 

[Bluntend]

The latest from our rumour network is that the Stn in question is 'closing' for two days whilst they brainstorm ways of restoring engineering/supply efficiency to what it was before Lean was introduced and improving morale which has been at an all time low since, coincidentally, lean was brought in. I wander how many other Stns have leaned so much they are now in serious danger of 'falling over'.