Money Money Money

[enginesuck]

Ok im seriously considering leaving the mob for patures new, reason being - MONEY . I dont think we get payed enough and i could earn almost double in the oil industry, I have just realised that in a couple of years i will be spending 50% of my life OOA so why not go work on the Rigs three weeks on three weeks off for more money, no guard - not being shot at.

However .... I would stay if we were given a fair wage, a wage which would enable me to buy a half decent house, a wage which reflects the work we do and defines our skills apart from cooks and coppers - Im thinking that us techies deserve a pay rise of around 18%

In all seriousness how much do you think we should get paid??DT_Xtremez_21:

 

[zipfish]

I thought our salary was worked out like this:

Equivalent civvy pay + Fcuk factor = RAF pay

But this can't be true if you look at what people are actually paid.

Aircraft techies don't do well out of it for example, they get payed about the same as they would outside (except for SNCOs who's civvy equivalent is Licensed engineer and would be paid considerably more). So where is the fcuk factor?

Stackers are laughing, their equivalents in civvy street get payed about £12k, so they have a fcuk factor of approximately 100%

RAF police probably have it about right.

 

[The Masked Geek]

I thought our salary was worked out like this:

Equivalent civvy pay + Fcuk factor = RAF pay

But this can't be true if you look at what people are actually payed.

Aircraft techies don't do well out of it for example, they get payed about the same as they would outside (except for SNCOs who's civvy equivalent is Licensed engineer and would be payed considerably more). So where is the fcuk factor?

Stackers are laughing, their equivalents in civvy street get payed about £12k, so they have a fcuk factor of approximately 100%

RAF police probably have it about right.

I've got a fcuk factor of around minus £10k atm....Pension and out for me.DT_Xtremez_28:

 

[enginesuck]

Techies get fcuked well and truely by the system, promotion takes longer in our trade compared to say admin etc, the actual physical work we do is way above that of other trades, sweating your ass off in 50 degree heat in the desert (heat stress index gets thrown out of the window) applying skill and technical prowess, signing legally binding documents to certify an a/c is fit to fly whilst working a 24 hour shift in many circumstances. The levels of pay 1-9 dont justify ones job especially the more senior one gets, i dont think a techie straight out of training should be on a fortune but a guy with solid experience should be rewarded accordingly.

 

[The Masked Geek]

We should all remuster as cooks. Same pay, fcuk-all brains needed.

 

[sausage2]

How can it possibly be right, that cooks, or RAFP, get paid the same as techies. When I sign indies, or oversign any job, or co-ordinate a F700, I am legally cetifying that the aircraft is servicable and is fit to fly. If I fu*k up, the consequences do not bear thinking about.

If a cook fu*ks up then, some one has burnt beans for lunch. How can that be comparable?

 

[zipfish]

This post was deleted, no spam thankyou.

 

[sausage2]

Hey cheers for that. It will be my new picture, as soon as i can work out how to do it.DT_Xtremez_30:

 

[Dirty Harry]

Pay was one of the many reasons I left the RAF. Jumped ship last year after 10 years, PVR'd with a B1 licence and now work for a large airline earning a wage which reflects my level of responsibility.

Getting paid the same wage as a cook or RAFP is damn right insulting. As Sausage2 so rightly pointed out, the consequences of a techie screwing up does not bear thinking about.

The RAF holds back individuals in the techie world who want to get on. How many times have you worked for a Cpl, Sgt or Chf Tech knowing damn well you are perfectly capable of doing their job but are prevented from doing so because you have been overlooked for promotion or haven't accrued a sufficient number of years service? This is where the system falls down, if somebody is capable of doing a job then they should be allowed to fulfill that opportunity, regardless of rank. Why do you have to be a SNCO to do GE duties for example? I know some really switched on Cpl's and even J/T's for that matter who would have excelled in the post.

I did read somewhere on this forum that plans are afoot to introduce civilian licenses for certain Cpl's, Sgt's and Chf Tech's posted onto FSTA (if it ever comes in). What a load of rubbish, another rank orientated system. If a J/T, or SAC(T) is capable of passing the exams and courses then he/she is your man!

To anybody thinking of pursuing a career in civil aviation, the move is/was a good one, the grass is definitely greener on the outside. Factor on earning £25-30k as a mechanic and £40-50k as a licensed engineer, overtime on top of that. Licensed engineers on the contract circuit can pull in £7k a month. It's not all about the money, it's also the quality of life. Being able to live in your own house and see your family every day after work is wonderful. No more wishing your life away living in the block whilst on shift waiting for stand down to come round or the 4 month OOA's.

Moral was low when I left a year ago, doubt very much whether things have improved. You only had to look at the number of people applying for redundancy.
I enjoyed my time in the RAF and am grateful for the fact that it armed me with a trade and skills which were transferable outside. I Left at the right time, didn't want to become one of those bitter and twisted individuals hanging it out for the pension.

 

[gemarriott]

I dropped a bollok coming out because I could earn more in civvy street than the mob. OK for the first couple of years but the same job day after day in the same place bored the tits off me. I worked for BOC making oxygen for the steel industry. Pay was about half as much again as in the mob and hours a lot less with Overtime on top, but boy was it fcuking boring. Granted things were different then in the mob, postings came around regularly, detatchements were fun and we were not stuck in the desert but civvy life is soooooooooooooooooooo fcuking boring.

 

[lavvy heid]

Ok im seriously considering leaving the mob for patures new, reason being - MONEY . I dont think we get payed enough and i could earn almost double in the oil industry, I have just realised that in a couple of years i will be spending 50% of my life OOA so why not go work on the Rigs three weeks on three weeks off for more money, no guard - not being shot at.

However .... I would stay if we were given a fair wage, a wage which would enable me to buy a half decent house, a wage which reflects the work we do and defines our skills apart from cooks and coppers - Im thinking that us techies deserve a pay rise of around 18%

In all seriousness how much do you think we should get paid??DT_Xtremez_21:

Hey fello parafino. I've said it before. £15,000 bonus and a 2 level pay rise.

 

[dantura]

Stackers are laughing, their equivalents in civvy street get payed about £12k, so they have a fcuk factor of approximately 100%

This could be true, but it depends on what particular job is done.

A stacker SAC equivalent working in a tech stores equivalent counting nuts and bolts living in the Midlands may well be earning what you suggest.

However, a SAC equivalent Q'd hydrant refueller working at Manchester or Birmingham A/Port is earning £27k+.

Then we can start to talk about NCO specialist Q'd stackers. Fuel Manager Q'd equivalents can earn much more again, inc. company car, health etc...

How do I know this? Well, the chaps running the fuels at Manchester and Birmingham are both ex stackers, and occasionally try and recruit from my section.

My point here is that, although what you said may be true in a minority of cases, the stacker world has moved on, and has had to. The trade is probably the largest and most diverse and most of the Q's have to comply with civvy Q's and current legislation, and a lot of these Q's are highly sought after in civvy street. I could start listing all of these, but to be honest I can't be aarsed.

I don't want to get into a trade slanging match, but a generalised comment such as the above, I'm afraid needed a little bite.


D

 

[dkh51250]

Fully agree Dantura. My current annual income is 38k, and believe me, I ain't sweating for that. Any decent loggie should be on the that amount. There are quite a few of us, all ex mob working together on the same rate.

 

[snowball1]

I thought our salary was worked out like this:

Equivalent civvy pay + Fcuk factor = RAF pay

But this can't be true if you look at what people are actually paid.

Aircraft techies don't do well out of it for example, they get payed about the same as they would outside (except for SNCOs who's civvy equivalent is Licensed engineer and would be paid considerably more). So where is the fcuk factor?

Stackers are laughing, their equivalents in civvy street get payed about £12k, so they have a fcuk factor of approximately 100%

RAF police probably have it about right.

What equilavent stackers? not the ones who have adr,dangerous goods, fuels, environmental, explosives, forklifts, class 1 or 2 q's etc etc!,

 

[skevans]

Unfortunately the pay reviews all depend on the people that are interviewed from your trades. There is absolutely no way that my trade would have been moved to the higher pay band at our last review, becuase all the people interviewed were disgruntled NCO's who had been passed over for promotion, PVR'd or were being discharged anyway.

How well did they represent the trade?

The RAFP have justified there pay rise on the back of provost 2000. However, your average airman will not see any of the 'real police work' as its all confidential.

Cooks? yeah true they don't carry the same weight of responsibility as an aircraft techie. However they are paid at an equivalent rate to civilian chefs once qualified. This is more a case of retention than job evaluation over the long term in my opinion.

 

[Fablon biff chit]

When was the last real pay rise? 1990?

 

[T55]

When was the last real pay rise? 1990?

I think it was 1991 when John Major approved a pay rise of around 7% (I think) in recognition of HM Forces work during Gulf War part 1. So come on Tony, three years on from Gulf War part 2 we're still waiting for something above the rate of inflation! (oops, I forgot, Gulf War part 2 hasn't finished yet)

 

[Bombhead]

Unfortunately the pay reviews all depend on the people that are interviewed from your trades. There is absolutely no way that my trade would have been moved to the higher pay band at our last review, becuase all the people interviewed were disgruntled NCO's who had been passed over for promotion, PVR'd or were being discharged anyway.

How well did they represent the trade?

The RAFP have justified there pay rise on the back of provost 2000. However, your average airman will not see any of the 'real police work' as its all confidential.

Cooks? yeah true they don't carry the same weight of responsibility as an aircraft techie. However they are paid at an equivalent rate to civilian chefs once qualified. This is more a case of retention than job evaluation over the long term in my opinion.

DT_Xtremez_32:

You say Chef’s that is broad statement as some of the cooks I have come across could burn water. On a serious note if you are going off civilian equivalents then surely the aircraft trades need to be looked at because retention is going to be a big problem.

When you look at PTI’s now they come out of Cosford as substantive CPL’s after doing their promotion courses on £21,000 and an AMM comes as a LAC on something like £13,000, they then have to come back to Cosford after 2 years on a Sqn to do their FT course, then they have to wait to get their tapes after the promotion struggle.

I know Cooks, Rocks, Coppers and etc. deserved their pay rises, but lets be fair and pay respectfully.

 

[Bombhead]

This could be true, but it depends on what particular job is done.

A stacker SAC equivalent working in a tech stores equivalent counting nuts and bolts living in the Midlands may well be earning what you suggest.

However, a SAC equivalent Q'd hydrant refueller working at Manchester or Birmingham A/Port is earning £27k+.

Then we can start to talk about NCO specialist Q'd stackers. Fuel Manager Q'd equivalents can earn much more again, inc. company car, health etc...

How do I know this? Well, the chaps running the fuels at Manchester and Birmingham are both ex stackers, and occasionally try and recruit from my section.

My point here is that, although what you said may be true in a minority of cases, the stacker world has moved on, and has had to. The trade is probably the largest and most diverse and most of the Q's have to comply with civvy Q's and current legislation, and a lot of these Q's are highly sought after in civvy street. I could start listing all of these, but to be honest I can't be aarsed.

I don't want to get into a trade slanging match, but a generalised comment such as the above, I'm afraid needed a little bite.


D

DT_Xtremez_32:

Just as a point of interest I am a Techie who has C+E and ADR as well as doing my primary role. I also know Techies who are also the Bowser driver on their Sqn’s so if we are multi trades should we be paid more for the Q’s outside our trade boundaries?

 

[Bombhead]

I think it was 1991 when John Major approved a pay rise of around 7% (I think) in recognition of HM Forces work during Gulf War part 1. So come on Tony, three years on from Gulf War part 2 we're still waiting for something above the rate of inflation! (oops, I forgot, Gulf War part 2 hasn't finished yet)

DT_Xtremez_32:

The last big pay rise was 10% after the first Gulf War and it was Maggie who gave it to us. God Bless her soul. DT_Xtremez_30: