NEED more Civ Pol

[sumps]

We have little feckers at the back of our quater in the community play ground smoking, drinking and riding mopeds smashing bottles..etc - I phoned the RAFP who saids call Civ Pol so I did, they havn't got enough people to do the job - so they phoned up the RAFP and asked them to do it of them - I ask you??? RAFP (who were very good about it all) moved them on - Thanks RAFP
(must send a memo to Gordon Brown asking for more bobbies on the Beat)

 

[True Blue Jack]

If you'd phoned 999 and said that you were witnessing an armed robbery in progress they would have found someone to send.

 

[chiprafp]

Its a sad state of affairs mate they have more and more officers sitting behind desks in HQ buildings and expect less and less bobbies at street level to take on more taskings. Also now they are using more CSO's as a cheaper option to proper bobbies

 

[MindlessRockMonkey]

As a Bobby I will agree, more civvy scuffers needed. Less "management" and "Office workers", More Bobbies on the beat/street/doing a coppers job. If you want a good idea of what a coppers life is like, buy and read "Wasting Police Time" by PC David Copperfield. FAF.

 

[busby1971]

Where I live we are entitled to a cop 2 hrs a week which includes driving time to get here. Luckily we don't have a crime problem, some times a drive by panda seems to be all we get a couple of times a week.

PCSOs walking around town centers dont really bring anything to our village, I think we've been sold a blinder here, more real cops walking around, providing reassurance would be greatly appreciated.

 

[skevans]

Just like trade bashing, I'm not into PCSO bashing either.

However what pleases me about this story is that the RAFP were used by the civpol to deal with something that maybe a PCSO couldn't. Whats more important to me is that the RAFP were even considered as an option and not forgotten altogether.

 

[chiprafp]

We regularly get called by Civpol here to attend RTC's nearby and also to assist with Prisoner escorts and have on many occasions been asked to assist bobbies in public order situations on a Friday, Saturday night. I think its generally down to the standard of relationship with the local bobbies.

 

[skevans]

I think its generally down to the standard of relationship with the local bobbies.

Very much so.

I was sat during (yet another) guard shift with the CIVPOL who had called by for a cuppa, they were revealing all to us in the belief that we were RAFP, yet it was actually thre firefighters who now know all about traffic policing in Kent and promise not to expoit it! (Much)

 

[chiprafp]

nice one!

 

[Minor]

As a civvy copper myself, the job is on **** street. There is so much internal politics and stats now we cannot do our job properly. We are governed by figures and results. I cant tell you how nice it is sometimes to say i'm going out on patrol to find some work (to do this is rare as rocking horse ****) Which is why i'm leaving the civpol and joining the Rafp. I've had a titfull of it.

Rant over.

 

[Bitburger]

We have little feckers at the back of our quater in the community play ground smoking, drinking and riding mopeds smashing bottles..etc - I phoned the RAFP who saids call Civ Pol so I did, they havn't got enough people to do the job - so they phoned up the RAFP and asked them to do it of them - I ask you??? RAFP (who were very good about it all) moved them on - Thanks RAFP
(must send a memo to Gordon Brown asking for more bobbies on the Beat)

At this point you should have said, ' fine I will sort them out with my shot gun'.When Armed Responce Unit, several squad cars, dog unit and a Helo arrive and say ' where is your shot gun' you reply 'I dont have one', they will say ' but you said you were going to sort them out with your shot gun' to which you point at the assets they have deployed and then rely ' and you said you had not enought people to attend'

DT_Xtremez_28:

 

[R_Squared]

I'm interested to know why the RAFP could not carry the same authority as a PCSO or do they already?
It would be an ideal situation surely, and increase the visibility and flexibility of RAFP especially around quarters and dealing with low level crime?
I know that around Marham we have PCSO's patrolling about, and the RAFP putting visible patrols out too, but the policy is that the RAFP cannot actually do anything (purely involving civilians outside the wire), and that CIVPOL must be called in the case of an incident.
I have to admit I always found it a bit odd that we have a Police force with very limited powers of arrest etc, I know MoD police and Royal Military Police are also different but why so many different levels of authority, powers of arrest and detention etc?
Surely it would make sense for a RAFP officer to have the same Warrant as a normal bobby giving them the same powers, or is this just a cheap shortcut for the MoD? Would RAFP have to be paid the same as a normal Police Officer if they held the same Warrant?
Why is this not the case? I have no copper (RAF) friends to enlighten me.

 

[Minor]

PCSO's dont have any powers that would be useful to RAFP. They cant conduct stop searches or arrest. They have no official powers to detain.

If RAFP had same arrest powers as civpol it would cause grief for them. Simply because we (civpol) are so low on numbers the RAFP would be taken advantage of and pulled away from what they should be doing on base. Also why should a RAFP nick some ****bag in a town centre for a theft, when this has nothing to do with the RAF. With more responsibilty comes more **** and hassle and i'm sure they dont need it.

 

[R_Squared]

But surely having permanent RAFP with full powers as you mentioned previously would lessen the burden on local CivPol, as well as enhancing Camp security?
I imagine some sort of LoA between local Civ and Mil police as to areas of responsibility could be drawn up (primarily camps & local living accommodations), possibly local small villages.
90% of RAF camps are in the @rse end of nowhere, have large populations (sometimes of large village proportions) and occasionally required having a permanent Civ Pol presence (as in Lyneham).
This is a drain on resources of local CivPol especially as we already have a 'Police' presence in situ.

 

[Minor]

But surely having permanent RAFP with full powers as you mentioned previously would lessen the burden on local CivPol, as well as enhancing Camp security?
I imagine some sort of LoA between local Civ and Mil police as to areas of responsibility could be drawn up (primarily camps & local living accommodations), possibly local small villages.
90% of RAF camps are in the @rse end of nowhere, have large populations (sometimes of large village proportions) and occasionally required having a permanent Civ Pol presence (as in Lyneham).
This is a drain on resources of local CivPol especially as we already have a 'Police' presence in situ.

Why should RAFP lesson the burden for us civpol. Dont get me wrong we need all the help we can get. That task is down to the government to recruit more police. Lyneham is well policed internally by RAFP and externally by civpol from Wootten Bassett and Calne/Chippenham and speaking from experience Lyneham is not a busy area for civpol.

 

[R_Squared]

Why should RAFP lesson the burden for us civpol. Dont get me wrong we need all the help we can get. That task is down to the government to recruit more police. Lyneham is well policed internally by RAFP and externally by civpol from Wootten Bassett and Calne/Chippenham and speaking from experience Lyneham is not a busy area for civpol.

Because the infrastructure to police the local community already exists?
Why recruit extra CivPol that would necessitate patrols to military communities, when there is a police force already in situ? Why not use the assets already in place fully?
Would authority be the problem? With essentially 2 police forces in a local area. I understand that the RAFP is being regionalised with area based policing responsibility, surely liason and agreement could cope with these possible problems?
Lyneham may not be a busy area for CivPol, but it must have had some increase in crime to warrant a local bobby?
Marham has also seen an increase in local crime, vandalism and burglary over the last year, leading to a request for extra patrols from the CivPol which have been answered by more visible Car and Bicycle(!) patrols and a few PCSO foot patrols.
Unfortunately, (I assume due to manpower and budgetry constraints) these patrols are generally during the daytime, usually the afternoon. Hardly a prime deterrant for trouble makers and local crims.
The RAF Police do vehicular patrols in the evenings, however, they would still have to call for CivPol assistance in the event of discovery of a crime and only have the same (although probably much better understood) powers of arrest and detention of your average civilian.
This just seems like a waste of potential resources.
I understand that, whilst we are not any more special than any other civilian, it is a great weight off the mind of deployed personnel, away from their families for long periods, that they are safe and watched over.
I think that perhaps having a RAFP with powers and responsibilities extending to the Patch would perhaps help with this kind of anxiety.

 

[ICATQ]

One of the main issues that the RAFP have had is not having the same powers as a Police Officer is in relation to drink drive. This has been the subject of debate for some time. These powers are available in Germany for example and were used, as all the NCO's were trained on the appropriate approved handheld and larger devices.

In the UK RAFP have the same powers of arrest as any other citizen, and as already noted probably better understood, so could be enacted with greater confidence, also having the appropriate training should the person arrested become aggressive etc. This is deemed appropriate by ACPO and the Govt to deal with any situation that requires immediate action. All NCO's have comms with the local police and in many cases are on the same radio net should a response be required by the local police.

I am sure greater powers would be welcomed as it gives them greater flexibility when dealing with the military community, although the existing legislation provides adequate powers for any offence that they are generally likely to encounter.

 

[PingDit]

Please excuse me for interjecting on your interesting thread but as it happens, I've just read in todays 'Scum' (Page 2):

"A day will come when there are NO police left on the beat" This was from Chief Constable Roger Baker from Essex.
He continued: "My fear is in the next 10 or 15 years there will be virtually no sworn police officers on our streets". Very worrying indeed.

Only a one year ago I was surprised to see a bobby on the beat pass my bungalow. I had a chat with him and it transpired that he was our community police office. I said that I was both surprised and pleased to see him in our area. He assured me that he would be a regular visitor to our area. I haven't seen him since. Furthermore, he's the only copper I've seen on the beat within a mile of my street for the past 15 years. Oh well.

We seriously need a government who'll address all of our respective forces requirements and allow us to do our jobs to the best of our potential.

 

[Minor]

Its unfortunate that the only time we are seen is travelling at 90 through towns to get to the next immediate job. I cant remember the last time i did a foot patrol, and its not for the want of trying. I just dont have the time anymore. This is a typical day for me.

Get in 30 mins before shift start. Kit up and check emails.

Have briefing.

Print out the 10-15 outstanding logs and then between the 4 of us (yes 4) attend these jobs whilst juggling the ones coming in and attending immediates. Make an arrest. This ties up 2 officers for a good 2-3 hours with custody process/statements/interviews etc.

Get back. Submit paperwork immeditatly thanks to the new sodding CJSSS.

Start ploughing through the remainder of the logs.

Get back to the nick with about 30 mins to go. Dekit car, refuel. check emails. sign off go home.

Following day is groundhog day and another days spent without touching my own personal work which is now 25 plus jobs. All with a victim waiting to find out whats going on.

For any other coppers out there. Niche RMS dont you fcuking love it!!

 

[ICATQ]

They keep assuring us they are introducing more measures to return officer to the beat, such as PCSO's and computer terminals in cars, streamlined paperwork, reduced forms etc.

This starts when?

The latest re-org of the RAFP means alot of NCOs will be working as a singleton, as do many civpol, and are working on certain shifts to target crime, on call other times.