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NEED more Civ Pol

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I understand that there's still an argument about whether Bobbies on the Beat are worth the money. I can't understand this as, what with manning cuts, Reports and all that bloody paperwork, it strikes me that there would be a reduction in the need for all that paper as there could be less crime !

A pal of mine just passed his Inspector exams. He reckons they are drowning in paperwork. . . . . .

I can confirm that. I resigned from the police a little over 3 weeks ago. The job has gone down hill dramatically. Officers are leaving left, right and centre. There is just no incentive anymore. And the compensation culture of this country "You've broken my human rights brigade" complaining and the forces taking the complaints serious putting stupid amounts of stress and worry on us for them to say 6 months later its going nowhere. I just didnt need that. I dont mind a bit of stress, it keeps me on my toes and makes things interesting. But you've got back stabbers in every corners waiting for you in the nick plus all the public who want bash you around.

Then the paper work. You've got to complete a pocket book for every incident you attend. You pretty much have to write verbatum any conversation you make. The job is a joke, yes the pay wasnt bad and there was one or two other perks. but its not all roses. Yet it seems everyone who is telling me i'm mad probably dont have the foggiest about civ policing bar one or two.

Plus its getting worse. Forces now cannot afford to replace officers who are leaving because of the credit crunch. They get less from the government and pay more out in fuel costs. And they all seem hell bent on recruiting PCSO's who are the biggest waste of money ever. They earn a little less than a copper and cant do feck all apart from make situations worse because 90% of them are Walts who think they are Robocop.

Since leaving i am sleeping better, feel better and dont worry every time my phone rings (plus now it doesnt ring at 2am asking me if i want some overtime).

Its now happy days for me.
 
Have you decided against RAFP then?:PDT_Xtremez_30:

No no. Still keen as mustard. Been told that my start date should everything go smoothly with my medical and fitness could be as little as 6 weeks away, as they are trying to cram people in Halton left, right and centre.
 
No no. Still keen as mustard. Been told that my start date should everything go smoothly with my medical and fitness could be as little as 6 weeks away, as they are trying to cram people in Halton left, right and centre.

They are that, however I feel as an ex civi copper you may be bored! Stress free though which is what you wanted. You not fancy going in as an officer?
 
They are that, however I feel as an ex civi copper you may be bored! Stress free though which is what you wanted. You not fancy going in as an officer?

I did, and have the quals to do so, but again i'm not one for sitting on my ar$e, i like being in the thick of it and getting my hands dirty. This way i have the option for a commission should i decide to go that way in the future.
 
I can confirm that. I resigned from the police a little over 3 weeks ago. The job has gone down hill dramatically. Officers are leaving left, right and centre. There is just no incentive anymore. And the compensation culture of this country "You've broken my human rights brigade" complaining and the forces taking the complaints serious putting stupid amounts of stress and worry on us for them to say 6 months later its going nowhere. I just didnt need that. I dont mind a bit of stress, it keeps me on my toes and makes things interesting. But you've got back stabbers in every corners waiting for you in the nick plus all the public who want bash you around.

Then the paper work. You've got to complete a pocket book for every incident you attend. You pretty much have to write verbatum any conversation you make. The job is a joke, yes the pay wasnt bad and there was one or two other perks. but its not all roses. Yet it seems everyone who is telling me i'm mad probably dont have the foggiest about civ policing bar one or two.

Plus its getting worse. Forces now cannot afford to replace officers who are leaving because of the credit crunch. They get less from the government and pay more out in fuel costs. And they all seem hell bent on recruiting PCSO's who are the biggest waste of money ever. They earn a little less than a copper and cant do feck all apart from make situations worse because 90% of them are Walts who think they are Robocop.

Since leaving i am sleeping better, feel better and dont worry every time my phone rings (plus now it doesnt ring at 2am asking me if i want some overtime).

Its now happy days for me.

I've got 6 yrs in civpol having left the RAFP to join.....time for a different perspective perhaps?

1) Paperwork - Yes, plenty of it but with a BIT of experience it shouldn't take long to get to grips with thus allowing the Officer to get back out on patrol.

2)'Human Rights Brigade' - Been around for years these chaps (long before you or I) nothing new and nothing to worry about. Yes, they will scream 'I know my rights' at you at 2am whilst sh!tfaced but I also know my rights and powers under PACE etc allowing me deal with such people without problem.

3) Complaints - Been there, got the T-shirt, I've had stacks of these little feckers, as a copper, I understand and realise that I am (quite rightly so) fully accountable. If I use my asp, I expect to be investigated, I have no issues with this as I can always justify my actions/thought processes. I belive that it's largely due to our accountability that we are in the fortunate position of policing by consent. That's not to say that the beefier complaints don't cause concern, but with experience and an understanding of why complaints have to be investigated they do become less of a worry.

4) Backstabbers, yes they exist but then the RAF is no exception to this. With regards to the 'public that bash you around' some try it but then again nobody enjoys getting nicked! The vast majority of the people I come into contact with are generally supportive of the police - these are the people I serve by taking the bad guy off the sreet. Don't forget that by the very nature of the job in most cases we deal with the 'lesser welcoming part of society' rather than those who are supportive of police.

5) Lack of money/personnel - Yes, every public service needs extra cash/workers, but you're partially wrong on the basis that my force is currently recruiting new officers and transferees. None of my team have resigned by the way? I'm assuming you've read reports of funding shortages within HM Forces?

6) PCSO's - I think you're being a bit harsh there, yes some are 'Walts' (But then I know plenty of coppers of that ilk) generally they're in the job for the right reasons and can be very useful i.e house to house, crime scene pres etc, these were the mundane bits of the job that coppers used to whinge about, now it's pretty much gone and we still whinge ffs!

This post isn't meant as a swipe at anybody, I'm well aware of the frustrations of being a copper but, in my opinion, when all is said and done and all the bullsh!t is stripped away the job is about one thing - keeping the decent people of this country safe. I don't get paid to worry about CPS decisions/Court sentencing, I get paid to go out and get the criminal fraternity of this country locked up....and I like it. A 'can do' attitude is essential with civpol and the RAFP, perhaps this is an element that you'd do well to fine tune a little? The problems faced by civpol aren't in many ways too dis-similar to those experenced by the RAFP.

Best of luck with the RAFP.
 
Well said Dobi, I have 13 years in civ pol after 7 years in the RAFP, 2 completely
different jobs.

Most forces are recruiting at a higher level than normal just now due to a mass exodus expected over the next few years (30 years since the Edmund Davis pay rises). A percentage of resignations are transferring to other forces, though many will not remain in the service due to finding that what they don't like in one force is the same in another.

Our force no longer advertise for transferees due to their high turn over.

Paperwork is a pain, but your right, less time moaning, more time doing and it gets done quicker.

Still a good job, as with all jobs, you get out of it what you put in
 
Cheers Flash.

As coppers, if we are going to be defeated by the fear of a complaint and a few bits of paper, how the feck are we going to cope with a riot/violent domestic/fatal RTC etc? We may as well hand our kit in and leave Mr and Mrs Miggins to look after themselves - hardly providing a service is it? Whilst we're at it we might as well tell the bad guy "Yeah, you win mate".


"These colours don't run son".
 
Cheers Flash.

As coppers, if we are going to be defeated by the fear of a complaint and a few bits of paper, how the feck are we going to cope with a riot/violent domestic/fatal RTC etc? We may as well hand our kit in and leave Mr and Mrs Miggins to look after themselves - hardly providing a service is it? Whilst we're at it we might as well tell the bad guy "Yeah, you win mate".


"These colours don't run son".

I know exactly what you mean. Quiting the job is probably the hardest decision i have ever had to make. I can guarentee that my good days in the job far outweighed the bad. I also had quite a lot of personal problems in my life which influenced my decision to leave. Problems i wont and cant go into on a public forums due family reasons (nothing dodgy or criminal i might add). Whilst i appreciate

I had spent 5 years in, in total with 2 different forces. So my experience was never in question with paperwork. I was probably the most efficient on my small team of 4. My acting skipper had less time in than me as did the 2 others on my team. I have attended large scale disorders and more than enough fatal RTC and train deaths single crewed to appreciate the the thin blue line is getting dotted, but i grew tired of fighting a losing battle and bosses with all the bling on their shoulders making the most idiotic decisions known to man making my job harder. There really is no light at the end of the tunnel for civ pol and having seen the rubbish recruits that are now coming through on this new IPLDP training lark was the final nail in the coffin. I went to a large fight again single crewed. I waited for backup which should have only been a few minutes away. I was not going to put myself in danger as i was heavily outnumbered and the brass tried to stick ME on for neglect of duty.

I have no regrets about joining the police, but at the same time i have none for leaving either.
 
bosses with all the bling on their shoulders making the most idiotic decisions known to man making my job harder.

Same in the RAFP - that's why I think you would be better trying for officer!:PDT_Xtremez_14:
 
There really is no light at the end of the tunnel for civ pol and having seen the rubbish recruits that are now coming through on this new IPLDP training lark was the final nail in the coffin. I went to a large fight again single crewed. I waited for backup which should have only been a few minutes away. I was not going to put myself in danger as i was heavily outnumbered and the brass tried to stick ME on for neglect of duty.

I have no regrets about joining the police, but at the same time i have none for leaving either.[/QUOTE]


Grossly unfair re new recruits, some are cr@p some are switched on and keen.

When I joined a few years back the so called 'old sweats' on shift (most of whom had only been in for 5 or 6 years themselves!) used to bleat on about the standards of new recruits as if it gave them some sort of kudos in the canteen "I've been in years mate I know it all, not like this muppets coming out of the factory today". This is absolute bollox, and it's grossly unfair to tarnish every new recruit with the same brush, THEY didn't choose the IPDLP system. Yes, I too disagree that they sould go to a RTS or equivalent to experience a bit of discipline/teamwork etc but the fact is they don't so it's down to the more experienced members of shift to guide and nurture them when they get onto the shift and not to dismiss them as "Rubbish" . I believe that if a shift has a good number of poor standard probationers then it's a sad reflection on the leadership of that team (and that includes the 'old sweat' PC's not just the Skipper).

I hope for your sake that IF you get through RAFP training you don't experience the same dismissive attitude against you from those with a few years service which you seem to currently possess because to be tarnished and stereotyped purely because you joined the job in 2008 rather than 1998 is not a good thing.

Perhaps this is why the assistance at the 'large scale fight' took a while to arrive?.......Just a thought.

None the less I still wish you all the best with RAFP and sincerely hope that your personal issues are resolved quickly.
 
Minor, I really do wish you all the best in the RAFP. I have been in the civ pol for 18 years after 7 in RAFP. They are two totally different jobs, no matter what anyone says on this forum I have bobbies on my shift who in 6 months have more experience and I trust more than a subby Cpl with 15 years in the RAFP. You don't say what force you were in, you should name and shame. However, my guess is either BTP (very similar job wise as RAFP) or a very rural force with a problem.
There are plus points in the RAFP, no doubt but these in my humble opinion are far outweighed by promotion prospects, pay, responsibilities and experience.
You appear very jaundiced about your force but the UK civ pol is nowhere near as bad as painted. Oh, ignore that book by PC Copperfield. It was written by a bobby on another shift at the same nick as me about 4 years ago. He was crap then, half the book is B*****Ks and he emigrated to Canada to try and be a Bobbie there as he was nearly sacked from our force.
I would take the advice already given and enter as an Officer or you will be bored later on.
Good luck anyway, enjoy.
 
Sorry just so I am clear, your basing your advice and your opinion of the RAFP on your time in the RAFP 18 years ago. Is that correct?
 
No, I am basing my claims on what I see now, I still have a very active connection with the RAF and RAFP. Don't get me wrong, I am not decrying what the RAFP do. It is a very professional military police force with good training but with a difficult balance to maintain between force protection and investigation. It is no surprise that over the years Officers have lost the APM tabs and the head of the trade group is now an RAF Regiment Officer.
However, the levels of investigations, the workload and the variety of work found in the RAFP doesn't come anywhere close to civ pol levels that includes SI and CI posts. I'm sorry but that is the way it is, horses for courses.
I'm proud to have served in the RAFP and am still proud of the RAF today but unlike our European cousins whose police forces grew under Napoleon the UK police force grew from the people and that's why civilian police forces always take primacy. You do a good job but I still think anyone coming from civ pol with a few years service would get bored if they were interested in the normal day to day policing compared to FP service.
 
158 shifts left to do............ Do I regret leaving the mob as an ATechE?...on the whole yes. Will I miss the force when I leave next year?....on the whole I don't think so. During my time I have had the opportunity to work out of force on 3 occasions totalling 5 years these being the only elements of my career during which I felt valued as a person.......Evidenced by letters of commendation from each of my bosses that were sent to the Chf Con. Each time the work was of a nature that in theory should have been of value to the force on my return............That being said, each time I returned to Force what happened?......Her's a set of keys, take a panda out. Shortly after my latest return last year the unit requested that I be allowed to return..........The response even though I had just over a year left and the job would have progressed into a civvy job on retirement?.....Take your panda out!
I must point out that on each of the occasions the job involved long hrs away from home and wasn't exactly a cushy one..but it was worth it..and the fact that someone appreciated your efforts counted for something.

Anyway rant over and whats thechances of becoming a RAFP at 51?
 
Ahhhh you dont wanna do that you have to deal with techies! Although the armourers are worse! :PDT_Xtremez_42:
 
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