OOA Tour Length

[P&A77TheB@stardCourse]

What is the logic in losing RnR? I can see the stick but no carrot...

There is a very small compensatory carrot, but it's a little bendy, greying and well past its sell by date.

R&R will not be binned totally, but R&R involving AT will. As compensation, R&R will be in theatre, or close to theatre (e.g. If Basrah had remained open, R&R would have been taken at Camp Beuhring in Kuwait, or at another R&R-type place they had in Kwt - the name escapes me).

Don't ask me where those in Afghanistan will go for their R&R, or how they will get there! Merlins...?

 

[muttywhitedog]

They could always get a couple of PTIs to run a Hill-Walking Exped in the Tora Bora Mountains!!!

Seriously though, I totally agree that its a kick in the slats, however those of us who have been on FU deployments year after year have never enjoyed R&R despite racking up the days.

Frankly I'd rather have the R&R tagged on to my POL than hang around some god-forsaken foreign military compound pretending to relax, wondering when the next rocket was inbound.

As Shimmeringbottom has alluded, there are plenty in our trade who havent been anywhere for a very long time which makes it more painful for the rest of us. Somebody I know who has been in the RAF over 20 years has only just racked up their first 100 days of LSA!!!!

 

[RAF Bird]

They could always get a couple of PTIs to run a Hill-Walking Exped in the Tora Bora Mountains!!!

Seriously though, I totally agree that its a kick in the slats, however those of us who have been on FU deployments year after year have never enjoyed R&R despite racking up the days.

Frankly I'd rather have the R&R tagged on to my POL than hang around some god-forsaken foreign military compound pretending to relax, wondering when the next rocket was inbound.

As Shimmeringbottom has alluded, there are plenty in our trade who havent been anywhere for a very long time which makes it more painful for the rest of us. Somebody I know who has been in the RAF over 20 years has only just racked up their first 100 days of LSA!!!!

Completely agree there mate. I would much rather have the extra 4 days off added onto my leave at the end of my tour. To be honest for me this is not a great heart ache not getting R&R. I ended up getting called a bad mother etc last time because of my views on this but hey ho I'm ugly enough to take it! Basically I have racked up almost 900 days LSA, 650 of them were whilst on a FU, 125 of them I couldn't come home as was in MPA and the last 125 was whilst in the Stan. The stan was the only det I have even been on where I was therefore allowed to come home. I personally felt that the time it took to travel home along with how much it actually upset my son to have to leave him again made it an unworthy trip in my eyes! He was only 2 and he was left not knowing if I was leaving for a long time every time I left him once I did actually return home.

For me I think it's best just to go on your OOA. Work for the 4 months, get home and be rewarded at the end of your tour with more leave than we currently receive!.

 

[Mightierthan]

I agree with both posts above. I have done 2 'hardship' OOAs, with no R&R on the first but with R&R on the second. Although it was great to see the family etc, my mind was still OOA and I couldn't switch off at all. Even if R&R isn't binned, I wouldn't take any on my next tour; I would prefer a down day, or 2, mid tour, in theatre, maybe in a safer area.
It wouldn't bother me one bit if R&R was canned and I don't even want extra days tagged onto leave at the end; I think that with the POL and accrued annual, I would have enough to have a good rest & holiday before getting back to work to catch up and bore everyone with war stories!

 

[chiprafp]

Yeah tbh I always find R&R quite painful in the fact that you get into your groove and get your mindset sorted to just crack on, then you have to go thorugh the goodbye stage again halfway through, I for one wouldnt be bothered at the loss of R&R but would be happy to tag it onto the end maybe.

 

[Downsizer]

I am of the opposite opinion. I thouroughly enjoyed every second of my RnR and found breaking the det into 2 nice manageable chunks made it seem much better...

 

[Cooheed]

I am of the opposite opinion. I thouroughly enjoyed every second of my RnR and found breaking the det into 2 nice manageable chunks made it seem much better...

For once I agree with you DT_Xtremez_41:

 

[Boarderlyne]

Having done a det or two, I would personally prefer to do without it, but that doesn't stop me using it and enjoying an escape from where-ever I have been sent. My time in PSAB was broken up nicely by a right old hoolie in Bahrain. But when I did Boz, my mind was still in that mind-set even after I came back for good.

 

[Kryten]

Having done a det or two, I would personally prefer to do without it, but that doesn't stop me using it and enjoying an escape from where-ever I have been sent. My time in PSAB was broken up nicely by a right old hoolie in Bahrain. But when I did Boz, my mind was still in that mind-set even after I came back for good.

Yep, compared to PSAB Bahrain was as close to dying and going to heaven as you could get...a lot of det jobs are high pressure so a 7 day stretch of R&R is a welcome break.

 

[Sniffer]

Completely agree there mate. I would much rather have the extra 4 days off added onto my leave at the end of my tour. To be honest for me this is not a great heart ache not getting R&R. I ended up getting called a bad mother etc last time because of my views on this but hey ho I'm ugly enough to take it!

You were called a bad mother..... Fcuking shocked mate! Tw@ts who come out with comments like that are also usually the first ones to have a dig because you have to have an hour or two off to tend to a sick child. Screwed if you do..... screwed if you dont.

I dont have any kids but I concur with the sentiments of the last few posts. Shove your R&R and sitting about waiting for flights to have 4-5 days at home. Give me that time when I'm all done and can finally relax.

 

[ICATQ]

I appreciate this is a shiney bit of the forum, however I have done 3, 4 and 6 month tours.

Obviously only the 4 and 6 attracted RnR. One 4 monther was in the FI and was not taken as it was only and meant I had to 'pay back' shifts covered for me while on RnR. The other was at Ali AL during Telic 2 and as many have said was a naus travelling and had my mind on the job while back in the Uk as I was responsible for a number of blokes. A number of guys too local leave as they didnt want to inflict the disruption on the families and especially young kids already mentioned.

The 6 monther was in Bas and the two weeks off was a welcome break as my job meant I was working something like 18 hr days 6 days a week. The 2 weeks really was rest and recuperation. I slept for most of it!

It all depends on what you do, to an extent, not decrying shineys, but sat around an admin office for 4 or 6 months is not as physically or mentally challenging as being part of the FP Wing out and about.

DT_Xtremez_14:

 

[Drill Instructor]

The non FU OOA dets I have done R&R is something I look forward too. Its something to aim for just past the halfway point and then the second stint is shorter. However I know colleagues though who found R&R upset their kids and wasnt worth the hassle. I think detachments should remain 4 months unless somebody volunteers to do six months before they deploy.

Does anybody think the glassbacks who convienently dodge dets can justify the higher pay band? My opinion is if we deploy every 2 years or so we have a case but sat in an office, not doing guard, ccs or detachments?

 

[raflad67]

The non FU OOA dets I have done R&R is something I look forward too. Its something to aim for just past the halfway point and then the second stint is shorter. However I know colleagues though who found R&R upset their kids and wasnt worth the hassle. I think detachments should remain 4 months unless somebody volunteers to do six months before they deploy.

Does anybody think the glassbacks who convienently dodge dets can justify the higher pay band? My opinion is if we deploy every 2 years or so we have a case but sat in an office, not doing guard, ccs or detachments?

No they don't but will it ever change...?

Perhaps if an individual does not deploy for a set amount of time for whatever reason they should be looked at - a hold put on being presented to the board, maybe a reduction in pay....it will never happen but something has to be done.....surelycup of corrrfeee

 

[Drill Instructor]

The RAF missed a big opportunity when TG17 went to the higher pay band. They should have only moved the deployable personnel across and kept the rest on the lower pay band. As soon as somebody refused to go OOA they should have been moved to the lower band.

Over 5 years it would have been very interesting how many glass backs cleared up. Nobody would have received a paycut so nobody could complain. If it encouraged people to be mobile again it could be applied to the other trades, supply etc.

At the moment we pay some TG17 who don't deploy £35K to do the same work as an E1 or E2 sat opposite them on lessthan half the salary.

 

[RAF Bird]

The RAF missed a big opportunity when TG17 went to the higher pay band. They should have only moved the deployable personnel across and kept the rest on the lower pay band. As soon as somebody refused to go OOA they should have been moved to the lower band.

Over 5 years it would have been very interesting how many glass backs cleared up. Nobody would have received a paycut so nobody could complain. If it encouraged people to be mobile again it could be applied to the other trades, supply etc.

At the moment we pay some TG17 who don't deploy £35K to do the same work as an E1 or E2 sat opposite them on lessthan half the salary.

You know what mate that's a flaming good call. Put everyone in the airforce that's deployable onto the higher payband and the rest onto a lower payband. I'm all up for that... P.S can I get it back paid???

 

[KingGuin]

The non FU OOA dets I have done R&R is something I look forward too. Its something to aim for just past the halfway point and then the second stint is shorter. However I know colleagues though who found R&R upset their kids and wasnt worth the hassle. I think detachments should remain 4 months unless somebody volunteers to do six months before they deploy.

Does anybody think the glassbacks who convienently dodge dets can justify the higher pay band? My opinion is if we deploy every 2 years or so we have a case but sat in an office, not doing guard, ccs or detachments?

Interesting comment. Having spent almost 9 months out of area in 2 differing locations in the last 2 years I now find myself downgraded; and not through choice. Whilst I will undoubtedly be upgraded in the near future should I be rebanded to a lower level becuase I cannot currently deploy?

Whilst I am sure we all know "glassbacks" and we all hold an opinion - often emotive - there are always 2 sides to every story.

As an aside the JSET did not award us an upbanding purely becuase of the number and frequency of our OOA dets (admitedly this played a small part) but for a host of other and infinitely more interesting reasons which included (as does every JSET) guard and detachments.

 

[Drill Instructor]

Interesting comment. Having spent almost 9 months out of area in 2 differing locations in the last 2 years I now find myself downgraded; and not through choice. Whilst I will undoubtedly be upgraded in the near future should I be rebanded to a lower level becuase I cannot currently deploy?

Whilst I am sure we all know "glassbacks" and we all hold an opinion - often emotive - there are always 2 sides to every story.

As an aside the JSET did not award us an upbanding purely becuase of the number and frequency of our OOA dets (admitedly this played a small part) but for a host of other and infinitely more interesting reasons which included (as does every JSET) guard and detachments.

I agree the subject of glassbacks is very emotive. I asked the question on this thread if as a trial only deployable clerks (including SAC clerks) should have moved to the higher pay band. Therefore nobody would have taken a paycut at the time. At the moment the system encourages / rewards the glassbacks as they don't do OOA, guard and pick and choose if they visit the gym. From your post you have been deployable recently and are working to be upgraded so maybe a temp downgrading would keep the higher pay. I am just debating what would encourage everybody in TG17 to particape fully in service life.

This is maybe covering old ground but could you list the main drivers in the JSET to award the upbanding. I would guess OOA turnaround times and retention to be the main points.

 

[KingGuin]

This is maybe covering old ground but could you list the main drivers in the JSET to award the upbanding. I would guess OOA turnaround times and retention to be the main points.

I have the scope in work, I'm out of office for 10 days and will dig it out and post as soon as I can. Cheers