Overmanning/Top heavy/Underworked?

[gemarriott]

Commonsense says each situation needs judging on merit. With experienced people the practice is frequently different from the written procedures

Eg, It used to take 3 people to fit a phantom seat pan, 2 to lift it in , 1 to do the job, 1 NCO to supervise and do vitals and a Sneck to do Indies. Frequently you'd have 2 pans to fit at the same time so the JT would do one and the Cpl the other and then check each other's work, the JT signing for both fits and the Cpl over signing both and the vitals. With an inexperienced JT that couldn't happen and the CPL would properly supervise and do the vitals on each seat.

 

[Pikey735]

In that situation who is responsible for the correctness and completeness of the task?

Whoever is signing for it. But no matter what rank you are, you dont leave a muppet to work alone, be they LAC, SAC, JT, SAC(T),CPL or SGT!!!!!!
To put my statement into context, if a supervisor wants to do it all himself, and I, as the producer trust him to complete the job to the same standard as me, then ill let them crack on, doing the paperwork for him just means the job gets done quicker, no point sitting there with youre thumb up youre arse waiting for the supervisor to finish the job when theres still stuff to do other than turn spanners.

 

[Dave Yeeles is a bigjobby]

At last, some realistic posts, it's all about teamwork basically, getting the job done safely.

As said before, the OP seems way off the mark to me.

 

[Craig855s]

At last, some realistic posts, it's all about teamwork basically, getting the job done safely.

As said before, the OP seems way off the mark to me.

no no, read the OP again. SACs sit in the Teab bar idle while groups of Cpls and Snecs go out and fix the jets?

SACs should be getting instructed on how to do each job to build experience whilst the cpls supervise/instruct and the snecs sit in the office (or if the snecs want some experience then they can pop out and join in)

If more than one person wants experience on a certain job then spanner time should be shared, experience should be passed on from the cpls/sgts to the younguns (obviously this is time dependant, if there is only 2 jobs for an entire trade desk to do all night then there's no rush) if its work on a jet that needs to fly in a few hours then yeah, get only experienced producers on it.

At my section an average desk makeup (facoring in leave/guard/dets/line/recs controller) is 6 SACs, 2 Cpls, 2 snecs (1 sgt and the chief or 2 sgts)

And because we're normally quite busy both cpls are out on the bigger jobs (fault diagnosis) with as many SACs as they need, and the rest of the SACs are on the easier jobs (quick component changes/funcs etc)

 

[Pikey735]

As dave yeeles says, the OP is way off. His version of how a SQN works bears no resemblance to the 6 fast jet sqns ive worked on/ with. It would help if he would reveal where it is hes working, as there may be reasons for there being a lot of 'surplus' manpower at his place of work.........

 

[POB]

Any other 1st line squadron SAT (T)'s out there who find that they rarely touch jets? My place is so overmanned and underworked, the one or two jobs that are on for about 10-15 of us are being done by SNCO's and CPL's.TRT​

As dave yeeles says, the OP is way off. His version of how a SQN works bears no resemblance to the 6 fast jet sqns ive worked on/ with. It would help if he would reveal where it is hes working, as there may be reasons for there being a lot of 'surplus' manpower at his place of work.........

It's not about how your experience of squadrons works, it's about the OP's experience NOW on his Sqn... For now he does not want to reveal where he works for political reasons.

 

[Pikey735]

Fair point. though to narrow it down, it would appear that he works in the AT world. helicopter guys tend to call their jets 'cabs' and FJ sqns dont have the amount of manpower the OP describes.......... So youre on a jet thats not throwing up many snags? Happy days, make the most of the early stacks, go do AT/Sport/Courses etc... I know I would!!!!!!

 

[Joe_90]

I get the impression he's working for NCOs who don't want to be NCOs. They want to still be SACs who get paid more, unfortunately that doesn't help his NCOs develop their management skills any more than it helps him develop his technical skills.

 

[PTR Hoar]

If that is indeed the case (kinda sounds like it) then maybe the snco's should grow a pair and sort the place out? Cpl's shouldn't need to be told but still...

 

[Weebl]

Fair point. though to narrow it down, it would appear that he works in the AT world.

Have you worked in the AT world recently?

I can guarantee you that my particular AT Sqn is so undermanned and overworked at present we have had 40 odd blokes posted from around the (closing) RAF as a temporary backfill, at least until Manning can find a job for them.

 

[Pikey735]

Have you worked in the AT world recently?

I can guarantee you that my particular AT Sqn is so undermanned and overworked at present we have had 40 odd blokes posted from around the (closing) RAF as a temporary backfill, at least until Manning can find a job for them.

I thought that too..... but i cant see where he'd be, i think my sqn is the only FJ sqn ive seen with a slight surplus of manpower, but half of that is non Q'd and effectively being taught the job, so nowhere near the situation hes describing.....

 

[DTRT]

I get the impression he's working for NCOs who don't want to be NCOs. They want to still be SACs who get paid more, unfortunately that doesn't help his NCOs develop their management skills any more than it helps him develop his technical skills.

Spot on. Could not have put it better myself.

 

[DTRT]

Some of The SNCO's can be just as bad! Me and a cpl were on a big job once that had been going on for days. A SNCO came back from leave and I was sneakily taken off it place of the SNCO! I have noticed them looking out for each other in the past. putting each other on anything decent when their on the desk. But if there's 3-4 SNCO's on shift in overalls their not going to be untasked or doing the **** jobs are they? Still looks like people replying are surprised by this, meaning this sort of stuff happening isn't the norm. Which was the point of the post. so I'm gonna start trying to move. Shame really because I do get on with everyone here, time to start thinking about career though instead of beer calls expeds and gym!

 

[MontyPlumbs]

On my last squadron we had on shift:

2x SAC(T)
1x SAC
3x CPL
1x Leading Rate (Corporal Equivalent)
3x SGT
1x Petty Officer (SNCO)
1x CT

Basically, the only experience on type was between the SAC(T) and the CPLs and the CT, so it was a bizarre situation of the CPLs and SAC(T) showing the Snecs how to do the job.

Not a problem once everyone was up to speed; but a tricky few months whilst OJT was being undertaken.

We did have one load team that consisted entirely of JNCOs, with the most senior CPL taking charge.

Thankfully we didn't have any gash blokes and everyone spread the work around to keep everyone 'current' so to speak.

As GEM alluded to earlier, we never had clear demarkation of 'roles' so to speak as we were all mates and just got on with the job. On a twin seat fit, a Corporal would do one seat and the SAC(T) the other; we would then check each others work prior to Indies being carried out.

Obviously when we had junior or inexperienced staff on hand we did it by the book as it should be.