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Paramedics

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hope2421 said:
You say unfair to bunch paramedics the same as nurses who have done a three year diploma/degree and then say its a tad different! Do you have any idea of the knowldge and training involved to become a paramedic? I could do you job tomorrow but you wouldnt be able to do mine, everybody has there role but dont run down other peoples untill you at least know what they do and how long and hard it was to get there.
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I think you contradict yourself, in one breath you are saying that you could do my job tommorrow and then you say not to run other people down until you know what they do.

I have worked with and currently work with a large number of RAF paramedics and I have the utmost respect for them and most of them have won some sort of national award. They are superbly professional but I very much doubt that they would be proficent to carry out all the roles of qualified nurse (most probably wouldnt want to any way) I have been taught how to intubate, i can canulate I have passed ILS, MIMMS, and have been involved in real time cardiac arrests both pre hospital and in a hospital environment so I could argue that I could do a paramedics job, but I wont. Current training as far as I am aware is 18 months for RAF paramedics with some discussion of a degree based program, and I am fully aware of what training is required to be a paramedic and as I have that knowledge I still say it is unfair to put them in the same area as nurses. As K999 quite rightly points out nursing a patient is very different from stabilising and dropping at the front door
 
I think that the paramedics need to stop nurse baiting and the nurses need to stop paramedic baiting.

They are two separate roles.

If nurses could do the paramedic's job they would be called nurse paramedics. They can't, so they're not.

In the same vein, if paramedics could do nurse's jobs they would be called... well, you can guess the rest.

Unless you hold dual registration, you can't do the other job. End of.
 
The formal training for paramedic is less than that of a registered nurse and is mostly based on an initial assessment and management of a patient in crisis. The basis of nursing is holistic care right up to point of discharge, not just dropping them at the front door.
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Incorrect, the formal training for a paramedic is a degree course of the same length as a nurses, but without the bursary. And it is based upon a little more than initial assessment and patient in crisis.
 
Can I step in as a voice of reason and offer all of you appointments to talk through your issues with each other's professions??

I am a virtual outsider to the whole nurse vs paramedic arguement; I am after all a mental health nurse.

I have met some great, efficient, highly professional general nurses, and some complete knobs but then I have also met some highly professional, great, efficient paramedics and some who are knobs.

At the end of the shift / trip / career, I feel it is more about how you have acted and not how you think other people have done.

I trained as a mental health nurse because I wanted to, not as a consolation prize because I couldn't be a paramedic or an RGN; I am sure that it was the same for you. You trained for the jobs of your choice, for several years, with little or no pay, because you were motivated and committed, not because you couldn't get anything else.

Grow up the lot of you, multi-professional teams are the norm in mental health where we work with psychiatrists, psychologists, social workers, GPs, OTs, and other specialists who bring their expertise to the team.

Why don't you shake hands and start doing the same.

P-F
 
dogfondler said:
Incorrect, the formal training for a paramedic is a degree course of the same length as a nurses, but without the bursary. And it is based upon a little more than initial assessment and patient in crisis.
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That is a recent development with paramedic training previously taking 6 months (from ambulance technician). Despite that, paramedics were banded the same as staff nurses who have taken 3 years to train whether as RGN, diploma or graduate nurses.

The vast majority of paramedics do not have degrees and have not undertaken 3 years of training.
 
I've had a foot in both camps at various points during my career. I'm a former Med Asst, now a Registered Nurse. I've worked with many of the RAF's current paramedics and trained many medics and nurses of all varieties across all 3 Services. The majority of the folk I know are professional, intelligent people who appreciate that medics, paramedics, nurses, ODP, etc., etc. are all different people doing very different jobs. I couldn't be an ODP, radiographer, lab rat or the like because I trained as a nurse.

I'm sure a Clerk (or whatever they're are being called this week) couldn't do a Chef's job. We are not comparing like with like.


Onto the original question... why are Paramedics not recognised by the RAF? They are! There is a paramedic cadre, a seperate FRI for paramedics and talking to them recently, a increased chance of getting shot or an ACSM!

If you think it's taking along time to develop the role fully, just remember that blokes weren't allowed into the PMRAFNS until 1980! Evolution takes time.
 
metimmee said:
That is a recent development with paramedic training previously taking 6 months (from ambulance technician). Despite that, paramedics were banded the same as staff nurses who have taken 3 years to train whether as RGN, diploma or graduate nurses.

The vast majority of paramedics do not have degrees and have not undertaken 3 years of training.
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I'm sorry, but I must take issue with what you claim. The previous route to paramedic consisted of technician and driver training (Ten weeks) followed by twelve months probation with three monthly assessments.

Following successful completion of this, one was required to serve a minimum of a further twelve months before being eligible to apply for a paramedic course.

If successful in the paramedic selection procedure, one was loaded onto a course (Seven weeks classroom followed by five weeks hospital placement).

Following that was a six month probation period before being permitted to autonomously practice.

Therefore, the absolute minimum time to qualify as a paramedic (prior to the advent of the university courses) was 152 weeks or 2.92 years.

I know this to be fact because it is what I did. There was no quicker route.

However, the above notwithstanding, I agree with N A T in that we all choose the job that we choose, and can't / don't want to do any other job.

As an aside, the NHS trust in which I work (West Midlands Ambulance Service) banded their paramedics at Band 6 and their technicians at Band 5, whereas staff nurses in the same geographical area were banded at Band 5.
 
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dogfondler said:
I'm sorry, but I must take issue with what you claim. The previous route to paramedic consisted of technician and driver training (Ten weeks) followed by twelve months probation with three monthly assessments.

Following successful completion of this, one was required to serve a minimum of a further twelve months before being eligible to apply for a paramedic course.

If successful in the paramedic selection procedure, one was loaded onto a course (Seven weeks classroom followed by five weeks hospital placement).

Following that was a six month probation period before being permitted to autonomously practice.

Therefore, the absolute minimum time to qualify as a paramedic (prior to the advent of the university courses) was 152 weeks or 2.92 years.

I know this to be fact because it is what I did. There was no quicker route.

However, the above notwithstanding, I agree with N A T in that we all choose the job that we choose, and can't / don't want to do any other job.

As an aside, the NHS trust in which I work (West Midlands Ambulance Service) banded their paramedics at Band 6 and their technicians at Band 5, whereas staff nurses in the same geographical area were banded at Band 5.
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An ambulance technician is not a U/T paramedic! There are plenty of technicians that choose not to progress to paramedic or are not chosen. You cant really lump it in with paramedic training time... but its a semantic argument that we can agree to differ on. Joining as I did as a single trade radar mech, I guess my technician training was 5 years 9 months using your example.

Well done getting band 6 btw, my wife always in charge of her cardiac / surgical HDU an ALS and EPLS instructor was banded as a 5 on the ward. Jeez, technicians on band 5 in the mids, a friend of mine is a technician and was patient transport before her 10-12 week technician course. Doesn't seem fair to be paid the same as a staff nurse. I guess its the fact that you guys are on the 'front line' so to speak.
 
metimmee said:
An ambulance technician is not a U/T paramedic! There are plenty of technicians that choose not to progress to paramedic or are not chosen. You cant really lump it in with paramedic training time... but its a semantic argument that we can agree to differ on. Joining as I did as a single trade radar mech, I guess my technician training was 5 years 9 months using your example.
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No, you misunderstand the procedure. It's not the same as the mech to tech thing that the RAF do. Using the old (IHCD) route it was impossible to train as a paramedic without being a qualified technician first. Whilst I am well aware that not all technicians chose to progress, all paramedics have spent the requisite time (and passed the relevant exams)as a technician.

It's all in the titles, really. In short, if we called people trainee paramedics from the day they joined the ambulance sevice they would need to spend a minimum of 3 years training in order to become state registered.

As an example, Royal Berkshire Ambulance Service called their technicians 'Assistant Paramedic', but their training was the same as a technician.

As far as the A4C banding went, the whole country was banded at a six for paramedics but were sold down the river by the union. The government backtracked when they realised that we didn't get shift allowance prior to A4C.
 
kevin999s said:
Paramedic is a relatively new concept within the NHS. It's only over the past few years that training has been standardised and the title protected - some Paramedics who have grandparented the title over have done little/no formalised training. The foprmal training for paramedic is less than that of a registered nurse and is mostly based on an initial assessment and management of a patient in crisis. The basis of nursing is holistic care right up to point of discharge, not just dropping them at the front door.
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Not just dropping them at the front door.........You have a lot to learn my friend.
 
psycho-fluffy said:
Can I step in as a voice of reason and offer all of you appointments to talk through your issues with each other's professions??

I am a virtual outsider to the whole nurse vs paramedic arguement; I am after all a mental health nurse.

I have met some great, efficient, highly professional general nurses, and some complete knobs but then I have also met some highly professional, great, efficient paramedics and some who are knobs.

At the end of the shift / trip / career, I feel it is more about how you have acted and not how you think other people have done.

I trained as a mental health nurse because I wanted to, not as a consolation prize because I couldn't be a paramedic or an RGN; I am sure that it was the same for you. You trained for the jobs of your choice, for several years, with little or no pay, because you were motivated and committed, not because you couldn't get anything else.

Grow up the lot of you, multi-professional teams are the norm in mental health where we work with psychiatrists, psychologists, social workers, GPs, OTs, and other specialists who bring their expertise to the team.

Why don't you shake hands and start doing the same.

P-F
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Psychy nurses are even worse than paramedics! Its all Roll-ups and brew's!
 
Why are you all so uptight?!?

Why are you all so uptight?!?

Listen all, there has always been a nasty bitter resentment throughtout all the medical trades in the military ever since i joined up, it'll never change, people always think the grass is greener on the other side of the fence "join the branch take the chance" is a quote that springs to mind!! Now for my twp penance-worth. I'm a ex single service trained RN MA who then completed Tri-service ODP training, i have 16+ years experience of working with the army/para/navy/marines/raf and have worked in the NHS as well as the military,thanks to the military closing military hospitals. I have met some total kmobs' on all sides of the equation nevermind what training they've had. We are all diffrently trained for specific roles,i would not for example want to do the ALO job,i guess a nurse wouldn't want to live in a shellscrap for 4 months on rations and restricted water lumping their life around on their backs like i've had to on occassion,saying that we all fullfill necessary jobs within the big machine,that aint gonna change.So i say to you all,stop bickering about who is better than who and work together,that way we learn from each other! At the end of it all,it's the patient who provides us with a job,not your bickering about who'd treat them better and therefor should get paid more!!!
 
Gents,
Going back to the title of this post "paramedics” is there a process that a Medic assistant can (attempt) to become a paramedic? Also as the job title states” assistant" can he/she become state registered? I’m asking this as a gen question as i have my AST next month, with the idea as joining up as a med assistant.

I'm ex Royal, looking to get back in field/combat medicine. I’m a cp medic, but mist out on afghan tours! I'm in the process of arranging a visit down to the Tac Med wing, just waiting to hear back from the OC now.
Any comments that you have would be great,
Regards
Tom
 
I know that the RAF is pushing to recruit more people as paramedics but from within the medical branch.

Do any of the medics on here know if it likely to change to recuiting personnel from other trades?
 
RAF Paramedics Course.

I believe its kind of in limbo at the minute.
A RAF medic friend of mine has recently been on his RAF paramedic course.
He was quite a way through it and it turns out that they are supposed to go to uni for a degree and the RAF have suddenly suspended the course whilst they attempt to sort it all out.
The guys on the course are now short notice posted until it is resolved.

Off TopicOn that note the drafter doesnt seem to realise that it would be beneficial to post them near a uni for later when the degree issue is sorted. My friend got his negative and probably the furthest camp away from any uni.
 
Hey

I have had a read though the posts on here and well i cant totally see your point. I'm a Radiographer and we arent really thought much of within the RAF as well.

I get the feeling that Armed Forces are not currently up to date with reagrds to what different healthcare Professions do and there current roles as well as experience that they could bring to the medical team. It seems just like the NHS from 40 - 50 yrs ago there are Consultants, Doctors oh and nurses and thats it end of. when the reality of things is that its the other healthcare professions that are being put upon.

I feel for all you Paramedics as you get a tough ride from the NHS with regards to training as well. its very poor for people who are highly trained.

For a number of years that have been some dangerous practices going on yet us radiographers like you paramedics work most of the time alone on operations except we have the whole radiology dept to look after. Yet also like paramedics we are not looked upon as officer quality we just SAC's, Cpls and Sgt.

I here change is afoot but i will have to see that to believe its as im sure cranwell teach its officers to become great liers! But hey ho whats new.:PDT_Xtremez_27:
 
Hello guys,

Any more news or has anyone got any more gen on this subject? So is it only the lads who are posted to TM-Wing being trained as paramedics?

Regards
Tom
 
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