Passports- Question for Admin Types

[sooms]

My passport ran out last month so I toddled off to HR today and was told that the RAF no longer will pay for a replacement Passport unless you are dwr'd.

Now I'm not dwr'd so I'll have to stump up the cost of a new passport- In the event of me subsequently being dwr'd or sent on a detachment which requires a passport can I then reclaim the money I spent?

Now to be really bloody minded- If I got dwr'd, could I insist that the RAF pay for another passport because the passport is 'mine' i.e I paid for it, and could I refuse to go on that detachment because the passport does not belong to the RAF?

All hypothetical, but just want to make sure I've been given the right info.

 

[muttywhitedog]

As at today, you have no need for a passport for work-related business. If and when you either join a deployable unit, or you are DWR'd then the taxpayer will pay for a passport for you.

If you feel that strongly about paying for it yourself, then dont - wait until you become entitled to one.

I'd be interested in your answer to this:

Was your last passport paid for by HMG?

If so, how many times have you used it for personal holidays?

 

[Realist78]

As at today, you have no need for a passport for work-related business. If and when you either join a deployable unit, or you are DWR'd then the taxpayer will pay for a passport for you.

If you feel that strongly about paying for it yourself, then dont - wait until you become entitled to one.

I'd be interested in your answer to this:

Was your last passport paid for by HMG?

If so, how many times have you used it for personal holidays?

Given that you can only have 1 passport at a time, I'd suggest lots. What's the point scoring for?

 

[Stevienics]

As it 'appens, you can have two. Everyone on MAMS had two. The company paid for one and it was kept back in Lyneham. They returned it to the passport office when you left.

I currently have two as well, with just a letter from the company saying I need it for work related visas which take a while to get.

(But whatever happened to NATO Travel orders?)

 

[muttywhitedog]

Given that you can only have 1 passport at a time, I'd suggest lots. What's the point scoring for?

Because I suspect the OP has had a freebie passport in the past that he has then used for personal travel, but now the boot is on the other foot, resents paying for a passport on the off-chance that it may be needed once or twice in the next 10 yrs for work-related travel.

Its called "swings & roundabouts". Personally I'd prefer it to the MAMS way, where you would definately have to buy your own passport for personal travel, as your work one was only issued to you for a duty trip.

 

[Realist78]

Because I suspect the OP has had a freebie passport in the past that he has then used for personal travel, but now the boot is on the other foot, resents paying for a passport on the off-chance that it may be needed once or twice in the next 10 yrs for work-related travel.

Its called "swings & roundabouts". Personally I'd prefer it to the MAMS way, where you would definately have to buy your own passport for personal travel, as your work one was only issued to you for a duty trip.

I'd more than happily go for that one, especially if you had an Israeli Visa, b@stard when you want to go Sharm etc.

 

[gemarriott]

They aren't that fussy in Egypt any more are they?

 

[The Masked Geek]

Why don't you just refuse to use your personally funded passport for work. Simples.

 

[Joe_90]

It's this amazingly short sighted view by the RAF that just helps to add extra stress to an already unwieldy DWR prep process. My passport had run out when I was put straight onto my reserve dates for a DWR with no prior notice it was coming. I was in Theatre less than 3 weeks after that, I don't know why everything was so rushed, my passport had run out the year previously and I'd been unable to get a new one through Service funds as I wasn't DWR'd. Because of this I was left to run around like a madman trying to get all the other pointless and time consuming preps completed and sort out the passport in a fortnight when I'd requested a new one 12 months beforehand.
The whole system's rubbish and the sooner it's QA'd to within an inch of it's life the better.

 

[Drill Bit]

Has it come to this, were we are quibbling over who pays for a passport?

You need a passport because are going overseas on duty; then the tax payer picks up the bill. The bonus being you get to use for your hols too.

You want to go on holiday and have no requirement for a passport to be issues for duty reasons, then you pay for it. I appreciate they aren't cheap but come on, if you want a overseas holiday then it's a price you have to pay.

How many of you would be happy to find out that your local politician was using your hard earned money to fund a passport for his/her private holiday?

 

[mib stacker]

Passports and Driving licenses are not to cheap and tbh we use both for both work and duty. Would it not be easier to give everyone an allowance to keep theirs current spreading the burden of payment btwn self and service?? Or am I being too logical??

 

[Stevienics]

I dont really get that either. If we need a ticket, or a visa, or a passport renewal out on planet earth, we go to the company travel agent who uses one of several associates to get the right documentation to the individual in the right time, according to need.

Why the MoD cannot do the same and save a helluva lot of time and money is simply beyond comprehension - unless they are totally incompetent - and cannot be the case, can it?

 

[Casual Hero]

Free passport

Free passport

volunteer for 90SU

all personnel there are entitled to a free passposrt as they are at R3 rediness at all times ....

free passport vs loss of life for 4 years... you decide

bite the bullet and do what everyone else has to ... pay for one

I'm sure you'd be on here moaning if the RAF paid for a passport for you and then told you it couldn't be used for personal travel

 

[UlsterExile]

My passport ran out last year. I did much the same as Sooms and toddled off to PSF and asked the very same question and got told the same. No drama's i said, and off I went. Luckily for me that year we took our holiday in Devon for various reasons(very nice). So no need to go and buy a passport. Come this year I got short noticed DWR(4 Days 3rd one at short notcie), went up to PSF(same girl) and told them I have no passport as they would not get me one last year. Got the usual drival and told to go and buy one and claim it back on JPA, I politly told them no as they are sending me on an OOA they are responsible for getting me one as per JSP. I filled in all the forms and handed them back to PSF and the looks I got well lets just say I wasn't flavour of the month.

Lots of people telling me it's my responsibility. I was doing my bit and getting my admin sorted and I was also expected to go off to the passport office and pay for my own passport to go OOA on the firms behalf. Now this may seem a little childish but I dug my heels in, and got them to sort it.

Why in this day and age can the firm not provide a passport regardless of wether you are on a OOA notification or not.

 

[185]

what happened to the nato travel order?

 

[KingGuin]

It's this amazingly short sighted view by the RAF that just helps to add extra stress to an already unwieldy DWR prep process. My passport had run out when I was put straight onto my reserve dates for a DWR with no prior notice it was coming. I was in Theatre less than 3 weeks after that, I don't know why everything was so rushed, my passport had run out the year previously and I'd been unable to get a new one through Service funds as I wasn't DWR'd. Because of this I was left to run around like a madman trying to get all the other pointless and time consuming preps completed and sort out the passport in a fortnight when I'd requested a new one 12 months beforehand.
The whole system's rubbish and the sooner it's QA'd to within an inch of it's life the better.

At my secret Northern base I insisted the DWR process was QA'd, and it duly was. My last DWR was almost 3 years ago, and now I'm preparing for another. In that time the process has grown arms and legs and I have to deal not only with PSF, but A1 Ops, J1 Ops, Air and HQ 3 Div; all of whom seem to want the same information. That aside I'd rather be over prepared than under. Which leads me to ask what exactly do you think is pointless about the current set of preps? Oh and why don't you request the procedure be QAd?

 

[muttywhitedog]

Why in this day and age can the firm not provide a passport regardless of wether you are on a OOA notification or not.

Probably because it would cost too much to give someone a 10 yr passport that is never going to use it for official business.

£75 x 150,000 (Army + Navy + Air Force) is £11,250,000. Even spread over a 10 yr spell and assuming there is no rise in the price, that is still £1,125,000 per year.

 

[Joe_90]

The first set of preps for a start are a complete waste of time, it's just a signature collecting exercise to be told to come back when you get your second set. The requirement to come into PSF to be given your flight details because they can't be given over the phone. That little trip took me half a day and cost about £25 in petrol because my current SFA is about 90 miles from my Unit at the moment. The need to find my boss to authorise my MT to Brize, surely for things like DWRs the Chief Clerk is best placed to know whether these things should be authorised, and a pre signed application that is filled out in PSF when you hand your preps in is a better idea. Having to be in date for your fitness test until the end of tour, with them being six monthly now this meant that I did it 3 months before my tour started and then again 2 months later, a waiver either to let me carry it over for a couple months to the one before my tour or to do it late when I return would have saved an entire day for the sake of a 20 minute test.

On a wider note, still connected though, having to be the one to get the AP reference that authorised me to claim back the cost of a meal on the trip to Brize after the original claim was rejected. That's two claims submitted and the time to find the AP and the relevant chapter while out of area, time consuming when you really don't have that time to waste. The job of the claims authoriser is to decide if my claims are legitimate, to do that they should have the decency to check the AP themselves, not get me to do it for them.

Just the ones I can think of that narked me when I was trying to prep for my current OOA, individually they are small things, when added up they start to take up a huge chunk of time that could be better spent on leave before you go. It's the little niggles that pee people off, we seem to be very good at taking the big things in our stride and I may take your advice when I return about requesting the system is looked at; perhaps even if we could just get an explanation as to why things are done other than "It's policy".

 

[Robby]

Joint?

Joint?

I know it used to be the case (pre JPA) but I was always told, by pers admin staff, that the Army and Navy were 'issued' a Passport and it was always supplied by the 'public purse' surely (I know- what a mistake to make) JPA means Joint practises?

As for the driving licence - a bug bear of mine I was taught to drive by the RAF and can not refuse to drive as I am QDB/QDL and this was always stated as being because the "RAF paid for your licence" not anymore they wont although again the Army say the MT JSP says its claimable but the adminers say NO! Yes its only £20 every 10 years but its just another salami slice gone!


NB: NATO Travel orders are becoming more and more pointless, Turkey and the USA are not willing to accept them as permission to travel- but they do help in the BX/PX!

 

[True Blue Jack]

I know it used to be the case (pre JPA) but I was always told, by pers admin staff, that the Army and Navy were 'issued' a Passport and it was always supplied by the 'public purse' surely (I know- what a mistake to make) JPA means Joint practises?

If you have a need to travel overseas on duty you are entitled to reclaim the cost of a passport - that is common across all 3 services and has been for the whole of my career to date, long before JPA. Perhaps the Army and RN, because they usually operate as formed units, have a greater proportion of personnel who travel overseas on duty?

As for the driving licence - a bug bear of mine I was taught to drive by the RAF and can not refuse to drive as I am QDB/QDL and this was always stated as being because the "RAF paid for your licence" not anymore they wont although again the Army say the MT JSP says its claimable but the adminers say NO! Yes its only £20 every 10 years but its just another salami slice gone!

Are you presently filling a Q-D-L post? If you are, there is a requirement to drive service vehicles and you are entitled to reclaim the cost of renewing your licence as I was able to do earlier this year. Otherwise, you have the option of not renewing your licence and saving yourself £20.

NB: NATO Travel orders are becoming more and more pointless, Turkey and the USA are not willing to accept them as permission to travel- but they do help in the BX/PX!

When did the US of A stop accepting NATO Travel Orders? It's been a couple of years but last time I was over there I used one - not because I didn't have a passport but because it allowed me to queue-jump at Customs. The Yanks I worked with at SHAPE a few years back used NATO Travel Orders for everything - most of them didn't own passports.