Passports- Question for Admin Types

[Woodja]

TBJ - it seems the spams now need each individual base to be named as the destination - which can be a PITA for some of the trips the boys and girls here undertake as they have to take multiple travel orders.

With regards to passports - on this unit if you have a DWR or are on one of the deployable lodger units you just have to complete the form (available from any main post office) and bring it into PSF - the clerks take care of payment etc, and if it is priority can make sure it is dealt with asap by the passport office (due to the volume of applications for intitial/second passports, they have a VERY good relationship with the local passport office)

With regards to the driving licence issues, we have had to crack down on the entitlements due to guidance from the MTO (he has a very limited budget for this kind of thing) - if your post is not annotated for a dirving Q, or you do not have an OOA which requires you to drive, we do not usually authorise the applications (although we do use common sense - eg our service fire section does not have anyone with a driver Q according to the establishment, so I'm curious who drives their tenders!)

Obviously, a lot of the competencies required for posts (especially driving Qs) are well out of date, or just haven't been questioned before (as in the fire section) - maybe when this place closes in 2 years time the new establishment at a certain AT base 30 odd miles away will actually be updated correctly so posts that need drivers in them actually have the correct Qs annotated to them.

 

[AllTechiesNow]

volunteer for 90SU

all personnel there are entitled to a free passposrt as they are at R3 rediness at all times ....

free passport vs loss of life for 4 years... you decide

Was that written tongue-in-cheek?

 

[busby1971]

Probably because it would cost too much to give someone a 10 yr passport that is never going to use it for official business.

£75 x 150,000 (Army + Navy + Air Force) is £11,250,000. Even spread over a 10 yr spell and assuming there is no rise in the price, that is still £1,125,000 per year.

If you're going to bounce figures around then you need to subtract the Navy, because they all get a free one, then the vast majority of the Army get a free one because they go away very very often and then a sizeable number of RAF people already get them free because they work on units that are held at a high readiness state.

You're probably saving at most 200k a year by not just issuing everyone a passport about the same as costs to maintain three SACs in the RAF (capitation costs not wages). Is it really worth it when it does cause a bit of greavance with staff who will at some point be going abroad on company business.

Don't moan at the Clks, it's not their fault and it would make their lives a lot easier if everyone just held a passport and took responsibility to keep it in date.

 

[muttywhitedog]

If you're going to bounce figures around then you need to subtract the Navy, because they all get a free one, then the vast majority of the Army get a free one because they go away very very often and then a sizeable number of RAF people already get them free because they work on units that are held at a high readiness state.

They are not free - they cost £75.

I disagree. Why should a downgraded Teccy (OOA turnround time for Av & Mech NCOs is around 15 yrs) in a 2nd line job get a passport that he'll only use for his annual family trip to Disneyland or Gran Canaria?

If you need a passport urgently, there are mechanisms in place for you to queue jump.

 

[jaguardriver]

MWD

Couldn't agree more - I am amazed that an intelligent person (must be intelligent to join the RAF....right!) thinks that the military will pay for a passport when they have no immediate/documented/tasked need to proceed overseas. A passport can be obtained within a few days via an appointment at one of the regional offices so why should a NFU individual have a passort if they have no service need to proceed overseas. Again - I am dumbfounded by this blinkered mentatilty.

 

[RAF Bird]

MWD

Couldn't agree more - I am amazed that an intelligent person (must be intelligent to join the RAF....right!) thinks that the military will pay for a passport when they have no immediate/documented/tasked need to proceed overseas. A passport can be obtained within a few days via an appointment at one of the regional offices so why should a NFU individual have a passort if they have no service need to proceed overseas. Again - I am dumbfounded by this blinkered mentatilty.

And this is the bit of it that gets me. If the OP doesn't purchase his own passport at his own expense and then for some reason or another found himself on a short notice to move say 4 days instead of spending as much of that time with his family he now has to spend a day getting a passport sorted out.

 

[Drill Bit]

And this is the bit of it that gets me. If the OP doesn't purchase his own passport at his own expense and then for some reason or another found himself on a short notice to move say 4 days instead of spending as much of that time with his family he now has to spend a day getting a passport sorted out.

So why does that mean his/her passport should be paid for out of the public purse? At the moment I've no need to have a passport for service reasons; but you know what? I've bought my own and should I need to move at short notice, for what ever reason, it will the best £75 quid I've spent. Why? Because it means I'm not spending a day or two chasing up a passport I now urgently need; I can use that time to spend with my family.

 

[True Blue Jack]

While I agree in principle that people shouldn't expect to have their passport paid for unless there is a Service need I do wonder how much money we actually save by not routinely buying passports for everyone who does not have a non-deployable medical category.

Busby estimates around £200000 per year, with sound reasoning. However, what even his figures don't take into account is the additional cost of fast-tracking passport applications which is necessary if an individual who does not own a passport is warned for deployment at short notice (which in itself seems more routine than not these past few years). £77.50 for the standard service rising to £129.50 for a same-day service. Every time we have to do that we chip away at the potential savings while causing untold additional stress on the guy who has too much preparation to do in too short a time to waste a day sat in the passport office.

How does it work in the private sector? Who pays for the passports of airline staff? Premiership footballers? Anyone else who may have to travel overseas for 'business'? It's a serious question, I don't know the answer.

 

[Drill Bit]

While I agree in principle that people shouldn't expect to have their passport paid for unless there is a Service need I do wonder how much money we actually save by not routinely buying passports for everyone who does not have a non-deployable medical category.

Busby estimates around £200000 per year, with sound reasoning. However, what even his figures don't take into account is the additional cost of fast-tracking passport applications which is necessary if an individual who does not own a passport is warned for deployment at short notice (which in itself seems more routine than not these past few years). £77.50 for the standard service rising to £129.50 for a same-day service. Every time we have to do that we chip away at the potential savings while causing untold additional stress on the guy who has too much preparation to do in too short a time to waste a day sat in the passport office.

How does it work in the private sector? Who pays for the passports of airline staff? Premiership footballers? Anyone else who may have to travel overseas for 'business'? It's a serious question, I don't know the answer.

Those that you've mentioned from the private sector can afford to provide their employees with a passport; and actually those you mentioned routinely travel overseas. Where as we can't and many of us don't.

 

[Joe_90]

MWD

Couldn't agree more - I am amazed that an intelligent person (must be intelligent to join the RAF....right!) thinks that the military will pay for a passport when they have no immediate/documented/tasked need to proceed overseas. A passport can be obtained within a few days via an appointment at one of the regional offices so why should a NFU individual have a passort if they have no service need to proceed overseas. Again - I am dumbfounded by this blinkered mentatilty.

Because NFUs usually make up the clingons on Squadron dets and routinely have to go away at relatively short notice with those Squadrons, if you have a Section of guys and only half of them have passports then you have a much reduced pool of manpower to choose from.

 

[UlsterExile]

Probably because it would cost too much to give someone a 10 yr passport that is never going to use it for official business.

£75 x 150,000 (Army + Navy + Air Force) is £11,250,000. Even spread over a 10 yr spell and assuming there is no rise in the price, that is still £1,125,000 per year.

I see what you are saying but my trade and rank, we go OOA every 2 years or so depending on the bad back brigade. I was just trying to prevent a situation where i would be unable to deploy for a couple of days as I would be waiting for a passport.

 

[Sospan]

The answer is quite simple, it should be down to your JPA number, if your post determines you need a passport, you get one paid for. For everybody else, you get it paid for when you need it, (DWR or Holiday) if you need it before the RAF needs it tough titty.

 

[Mr Grok]

If anybody on here is going to attempt to discuss the financial aspects of the RAF/MOD issuing passports to all its personnel, then the true cost of a passport needs to be determined at some stage.

The cost of a passport to Joe Public might well be £75 (or whatever), but is that the true cost, or does it involve an element of profit for the government? Could the MOD, as a government department, obtain passports at a discounted rate?

In this day and age, where everything is driven by costs and accountants, no doubt each individual government department tries to rip off any other. So there could be no saving involved - but surely this aspect is worth considering, if only in passing.....

 

[Tashy_Man]

How does it work in the private sector? Who pays for the passports of airline staff? Premiership footballers? Anyone else who may have to travel overseas for 'business'? It's a serious question, I don't know the answer.

In my line of work the company pays for it but it is up to the individual to get it and keep it current (although they keep details on file and will remind you)....we then just claim the cost plus travel expenses if a visit to the passport office is required (plus it counts as an extra day worked )

Most of our guys also have a second passport just in case one is away for visas etc.

 

[RAF Bird]

So why does that mean his/her passport should be paid for out of the public purse? At the moment I've no need to have a passport for service reasons; but you know what? I've bought my own and should I need to move at short notice, for what ever reason, it will the best £75 quid I've spent. Why? Because it means I'm not spending a day or two chasing up a passport I now urgently need; I can use that time to spend with my family.

Please show me exactly where in my post I have said that I think it should be paid for at public expense? On no you cant because I didn't say that did I? Maybe you should try reading what is written and not what you think is written.

For the record I think there are arguments for both side. In the past when I was on TSW if my passport had ran out of life I would have been able to claim the cost of it because we were away so often and I needed one for my job.... I am no longer there and when I needed a new passport I paid for it myself, as, as the OP has found out if you don't need it immediately for the job then you wont get it. End of story.... the only thing that annoys me about it (not for me as I luckily get to go off abroad at least once a year on my hols) but for some who maybe doesn't globe trot then they will have to either waste £75 on something they don't personally need or spend valuable time away from their family if they were to get a short notice to move.

 

[Vman921]

If a passport costs £77.50 every 10 years then what is everyone arguing about?

Is everyone so skint that they can't afford £77.50 every 10 years?

I got one payed for myself when I was on TCW 11 years ago and paid for my own last year. Im in a deployable post and will be posted to another deployable post after the new year.

Do I begrudge the RAF for not shelling out for passports? No.

We expect the RAF to spoon feed us because we were 10+ years ago.

We need to get rid of people, A/C, stations as we no longer have the budget for it.

I understand and appriciate that we used to get loads of things for free but it really isn't worth getting angry over.

DT_Xtremez_19:

 

[Stevienics]

I can guarantee you that the mob always has and always will depend upon individuals like your good self to uphold that sort of mindset.

Likewise, you will never find the MoD taking it upon itself to voluntarily meet a need in any grey area, where this is a chance in hell of getting the individual to stump up for it itself by issuing some questionable centrally issued dictat.

Out of complete and utter incompetence, the Mod is an estimated £36 billion over its equipment budget over the next ten years. Think about that for a minute the next time you worry about where the cost of the next passport is coming from.