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DT_Xtremez_31:
T
Tubby
Guest
Right wingers believe the responsibility is on the individual, left wingers believe the responsibility lies with the state.
This country has always worked best under a right leaning government.
People like to look at the politicians rather than thier policies as to why theu don't like a certain party. I like to do both.
Labour has lots of "new" millionaires. People that were succesful in business which is inherently a gamnle (not one ia am against by the way). On the flip side rhe tories have many old millionaires, people that have had to make thier inheritance last for generations through wise investments and thrifty spending.
When it comes to our nations money, I know who I would rather manage it.
Had Blair and Brown not royally screwed us we may have had a reasonable pay rise and fewer post war redundancies.
This country has always worked best under a right leaning government.
People like to look at the politicians rather than thier policies as to why theu don't like a certain party. I like to do both.
Labour has lots of "new" millionaires. People that were succesful in business which is inherently a gamnle (not one ia am against by the way). On the flip side rhe tories have many old millionaires, people that have had to make thier inheritance last for generations through wise investments and thrifty spending.
When it comes to our nations money, I know who I would rather manage it.
Had Blair and Brown not royally screwed us we may have had a reasonable pay rise and fewer post war redundancies.
Ghandi's Flip-Flop
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Well just a few counters to that:
Since i've been on this little rock, under a Tory government
Remind me again what colour party was in charge during the 80's and early 90's with massive inflation and a great many people forced out of their homes due to spiralling interest rates?
No Labour aren't perfect either, but to solely blame one side of the political spectrum for our current wider social issues is quite frankly ridiculous. It's the whole system that is flawed. No strategic, joined up, long term thinking and all short term popularity politics by those on either side of the house.
Since i've been on this little rock, under a Tory government
- The inequality gap has always grown exponentially.
- Social mobility has decreased exponentially.
- Real term job prospects for those of us not lucky enough to fall onto the nepotism bandwagon decrease massively
- Large quantities of hard working people have not been paid enough to make ends meet
Remind me again what colour party was in charge during the 80's and early 90's with massive inflation and a great many people forced out of their homes due to spiralling interest rates?
No Labour aren't perfect either, but to solely blame one side of the political spectrum for our current wider social issues is quite frankly ridiculous. It's the whole system that is flawed. No strategic, joined up, long term thinking and all short term popularity politics by those on either side of the house.
Ghandi's Flip-Flop
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I take some exception to this comment. If you think that it is a skill to play 'The Game of Life' with a massively weighted set of dice, can I turn up with a set and play craps against you?
So the political soundbites you've listed above, you've got some verifiable, neutral links to back up your claims right?
T
Tubby
Guest
If people are born with a better hand in life than your self hard lines get over it. It isn't thier fault you wasn't. The point is that they tend to be better at making what they have last the generations not just the week. As an example, how many working class lottery winners are skint again because they ****ed it up the wall. More than we read about I am guessing.
As for the 80's. Who screwed us in the seventies to put us in such a position we had to go begging to foreign banks for hand outs, leaving the Tories without anpot to **** in when they took over. All though privatisation could have been handled better than it was, it was the only way the industries could get the investment needed because we were broke yet again thanks to Labour reckless spending.
As for the 80's. Who screwed us in the seventies to put us in such a position we had to go begging to foreign banks for hand outs, leaving the Tories without anpot to **** in when they took over. All though privatisation could have been handled better than it was, it was the only way the industries could get the investment needed because we were broke yet again thanks to Labour reckless spending.
Ghandi's Flip-Flop
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Yes its called the ONS
And even if I didn't, I wasn't aware that the only opinions air-able on here were the same tired right wing clichés used to justify screwing the majority for the benefit of the minority. Don't see many un-biased, balanced viewpoints in here full stop.
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fair enough. In a naturally evolved meritocracy where each has the same value to the market, what would you advocate?
Ghandi's Flip-Flop
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And where does this Utopian naturally evolved meritocracy exist? It sure as hell isn't the UK. Centuries of nepotism, the old boys network and then 150 years or so of 'Social Darwinism' saw to that.
PraiseBacon
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I have a view that, in reality, both the Tory’s and Labour actually need each other – if either is in power too long things just go off the rails.
The left promote a ‘nanny state’ view, with equality for all and people’s needs being met. This is usually achieved at the expense of industry, and hammers the wealthy. Keep at it too long and it promotes laziness and underachievement – along with winters of discontent etc (who wants a return to the late 70’s – bad times for those of us old enough to remember!).
The right promote a view of personal responsibility, and balanced budgets with taxes minimized. However, it supports elitism from old money and puts the balance of power too far into the hands of industry.
I don’t believe in staying in the middle (LibDem losers) either – the fence sitters would be a disaster – it needs passion to drive towards the left, and then back to the right when either side gets far enough in their agenda to be unpalatable and into the dangers of each side.
Without wanting a debate in genius or mad cow – the early mid Thatcher years were interesting as they provided the greatest period of social mobility, based on money and access to education in the yuppie era.
I’m a big believer in education – a surprise to many who were at school with and saw me all but drop out before joining the RAF. However, education is the greatest enabler of social mobility..
I don’t believe in ‘everyone shall be equal’ , fact is that just leads to ‘animal farm’ (the book, not the movie). I also don’t believe it should be all about the elite from certain schools..
Many years ago, grammar schools gave the working class their leg up to the middle class and better paying jobs etc - especially places like Manchester grammar school.
Latterly, it was the wider access to Universities that did it – something I benefitted from greatly. The world wasn’t handed to me on a plate, but after working at a decent degree – then working hard in various subsequent jobs – I’ve had a hell of a good life from it.
I have a strongly held view that the current tuition fees are wrong – I couldn’t afford to go to Uni nowadays. And enrollment continues to drop – something that needs to be reversed.
If I was in power, science, medical;, teaching , engineering and other worthwhile degrees would attract a decent grant again – anyone wanting a 3 year doss ending an arts degree in Klingon etc – great, fill your boots, but pay for it yourself…
I would also bring back poly’s / colleges etc and support vocational / skills based training for those that need it..
Also, in a pom government, companies would pick up a higher tax burden – but not taxed out of existence. The personal tax loopholes would be tightened, and benefits would be overhauled (concentrated on the need, not the lifestyle choice ).
Did the Forces deserve only a 1% rise, no of course not – nor did most of the public sector. We all know they deserved more.
However, in times of austerity – it is an unfortunate reality of life.. The other unfortunate reality is in the private sector – wages can go down as well as up ! and there is no guarantee of a pay rise there either..
Finger pointing, blame and rallying round an unpopular sector are easy – all the parties do it . and most media organization enable and support it. I actually get really hacked off listening to politicos blame their predecessors – what I want to hear is how both are all going to work together to get out of the hole rather than continually undermine each other..
The most depressing thing to me at the moment is the poor quality of the countries political leadership at the moment – I thing Ed ‘****’ Miliband is a waste of space, no substance to him at all. Cameron is struggling, and failing ,to hold his own party together – let alone guide the country down a path to recovery, Nick Clegg is a wet blanket.
Where are the convincing leaders – the likes of Labour’s John Smith (RIP etc) – my biggest hope for the country is that someone credible , with a decent vision for the country, emerges from at least one of the parties before the next election – else we are in for another few years of drudge…
(and no Farage is not part of the solution – he is part of the problem!)
The left promote a ‘nanny state’ view, with equality for all and people’s needs being met. This is usually achieved at the expense of industry, and hammers the wealthy. Keep at it too long and it promotes laziness and underachievement – along with winters of discontent etc (who wants a return to the late 70’s – bad times for those of us old enough to remember!).
The right promote a view of personal responsibility, and balanced budgets with taxes minimized. However, it supports elitism from old money and puts the balance of power too far into the hands of industry.
I don’t believe in staying in the middle (LibDem losers) either – the fence sitters would be a disaster – it needs passion to drive towards the left, and then back to the right when either side gets far enough in their agenda to be unpalatable and into the dangers of each side.
Without wanting a debate in genius or mad cow – the early mid Thatcher years were interesting as they provided the greatest period of social mobility, based on money and access to education in the yuppie era.
I’m a big believer in education – a surprise to many who were at school with and saw me all but drop out before joining the RAF. However, education is the greatest enabler of social mobility..
I don’t believe in ‘everyone shall be equal’ , fact is that just leads to ‘animal farm’ (the book, not the movie). I also don’t believe it should be all about the elite from certain schools..
Many years ago, grammar schools gave the working class their leg up to the middle class and better paying jobs etc - especially places like Manchester grammar school.
Latterly, it was the wider access to Universities that did it – something I benefitted from greatly. The world wasn’t handed to me on a plate, but after working at a decent degree – then working hard in various subsequent jobs – I’ve had a hell of a good life from it.
I have a strongly held view that the current tuition fees are wrong – I couldn’t afford to go to Uni nowadays. And enrollment continues to drop – something that needs to be reversed.
If I was in power, science, medical;, teaching , engineering and other worthwhile degrees would attract a decent grant again – anyone wanting a 3 year doss ending an arts degree in Klingon etc – great, fill your boots, but pay for it yourself…
I would also bring back poly’s / colleges etc and support vocational / skills based training for those that need it..
Also, in a pom government, companies would pick up a higher tax burden – but not taxed out of existence. The personal tax loopholes would be tightened, and benefits would be overhauled (concentrated on the need, not the lifestyle choice ).
Did the Forces deserve only a 1% rise, no of course not – nor did most of the public sector. We all know they deserved more.
However, in times of austerity – it is an unfortunate reality of life.. The other unfortunate reality is in the private sector – wages can go down as well as up ! and there is no guarantee of a pay rise there either..
Finger pointing, blame and rallying round an unpopular sector are easy – all the parties do it . and most media organization enable and support it. I actually get really hacked off listening to politicos blame their predecessors – what I want to hear is how both are all going to work together to get out of the hole rather than continually undermine each other..
The most depressing thing to me at the moment is the poor quality of the countries political leadership at the moment – I thing Ed ‘****’ Miliband is a waste of space, no substance to him at all. Cameron is struggling, and failing ,to hold his own party together – let alone guide the country down a path to recovery, Nick Clegg is a wet blanket.
Where are the convincing leaders – the likes of Labour’s John Smith (RIP etc) – my biggest hope for the country is that someone credible , with a decent vision for the country, emerges from at least one of the parties before the next election – else we are in for another few years of drudge…
(and no Farage is not part of the solution – he is part of the problem!)
Calm down dear. Asking you to back up your opinions isn't the same as making different opinions un-airable. Someone as clever as you should realise that.
Back to your post, have you got a link to the ONS that backs up your claims on social mobility, nepotism, etc....? I can't find any other than opinion in the press...
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Unless you are suggesting and can verify that the process is non-transparent and illegal, you got nothing.
No. Its purely a coincidence that MPs and cabinet ministers sit on the boards of private medical companies who win contracts with the NHS.
Its also a total coincidence that tory donors, Circle Health – the first private firm to take over an NHS hospital – have given the Conservatives over £1.4million and that Circle media employee works for the health secretary and also for his predecessor. Another coincidence is that tory MP, Mark Simmonds is paid £50,000 a year by Circle for 10 hours’ work a month.
Total coincidence that the NHS is being set up to fail and that private companies are taking over great swathes of the NHS and a coincidence that Cameron, Osborne, IDS, and a dozen or so more MPs and Lords have stakes in private health companies that could profit from the public purse.
Nothing to see here, move along.
Its also a total coincidence that tory donors, Circle Health – the first private firm to take over an NHS hospital – have given the Conservatives over £1.4million and that Circle media employee works for the health secretary and also for his predecessor. Another coincidence is that tory MP, Mark Simmonds is paid £50,000 a year by Circle for 10 hours’ work a month.
Total coincidence that the NHS is being set up to fail and that private companies are taking over great swathes of the NHS and a coincidence that Cameron, Osborne, IDS, and a dozen or so more MPs and Lords have stakes in private health companies that could profit from the public purse.
Nothing to see here, move along.
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It's legal, it's open, and anyone could have bid.
Big money will almost inevitably hove from, and contribute to the tories irrespective of the name over the door. They are not stupid.
Big money will almost inevitably hove from, and contribute to the tories irrespective of the name over the door. They are not stupid.
Sorry, I made an error. I said that over a dozen parliamentarians have financial and vested interests in healthcare companies. I was wrong. Over 200 parliamentarians have recent past or present financial links to companies involved in healthcare and all were allowed to vote on the Health and Social Care bill, turning it into an Act.
Sorry for my error. No Nepotism, just pure coincidence that they've benefited.
Sorry for my error. No Nepotism, just pure coincidence that they've benefited.
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I'm sure it is in the register of interests.
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listening to the radio this morning driving in and it appears that their are 7 millionaires in the shadow cabinet...Maybe it's not a big deal but I always thought one of the reasons people voted Labour was because of it's grass root origins and ties?
the idea that liebour was the party of the working man,died with john smith,at least tony benn stuck to his guns,the reason that some are turning to ukip is that they see no difference between the major parties just snouts in the swill bin.