people pvr'ing and then accepting their tapes!!!

[renton]

deleted !!!!!!!

 

[metimmee]

now i might sound like a wingeing sac here and i think to an extent i am.

ive been out of training 6 years now (coming up to 11 years total) and i think ive had some ok assesments (3 rec, 4 rec, 3 rec, 5 high, a- high, a- high)

im not even making an A grade with these.

there are people i know of been in less(a lot less) with similar assesements and are getting there tapes??

there is one lad who turned his down , pvr'd as the raf was ****e blah blah, couldnt get a job so asked to be let back in and he has just come off the board!!! .

where am i going wrong ffs??

cheers

renton

Do you think your appraisals have the content as well as the grades? Grades and recs mean nothing without content.

 

[renton]

i belive the last 2 do yes .

 

[snowball1]

Take up golf or rugby!

 

[vim_fuego]

What secondary duties do you do?

 

[renton]

after reading through this post ive come to the conclusion i am a ****!!

 

[vim_fuego]

at my last post i was on the families commitee with my f.s and boss.

ive only been at this post since october and as its a dsda site there arent many secondary duties?

It may be that a third year of decent assessments is the trick...Just because there is a shortage of on-camp mil orientated secondary duties does not mean there aren't any secondary duties...Think of Round Table/SSAFA/TRBL/Cubs/Scouts/Cadets/PTA etc.

Try to do something that cant be seen as self-serving e.g. Say if you had a kid who played football for the local team and you helped to coach them that can be construed as being self-serving and therefore not a good 2nd'ary duty...Apply that rationale to your situation and choose wisely and quickly...Something involving the handling of money is the best...

You may and probably are the greatest one of whatever you are and do but there will be another 8 dozen just as great as you...As much as it pains me to say this it's what you do extra that will make you stand out...

As for the PVR'ing then taking promotion thing...Nobody ever said that life in the mob was going to be fair or even make sense!

Good luck...

 

[Kernow]

TBH it does sound (please remember i havent seen them) like your appraisals just have not been strong enough in terms of content. It wont matter if you have a secondary duty if the narrative is poorly written. You just wont stand out from the crowd and wont tick the right boxes. Quite possible having only 2 strong ones will still leave you in the B Grades. I do know pers who have had specs and ended up in the Bs

In terms of personnel who PVR being offered promotion and then accept it, I dont really see where the problem is, the majority of the PVRs that I have seen generally centre around lack of promotion, career opportunities and dont say I'm leaving because the Air Force is Sh1te (i am taking the mick slightly on the last bit). Now someone PVRs for that reason and is subsequently offered promotion with a posting well that answers their concerns and they decide to stay in because hey they got promoted and they are being offered a career opportunity. It has been done to death somewhere else a long time ago about how committed someone is if they PVR but I personally dont see the issue as they've still earnt it.

 

[MontyPlumbs]

TBH it does sound (please remember i havent seen them) like your appraisals just have not been strong enough in terms of content. It wont matter if you have a secondary duty if the narrative is poorly written. You just wont stand out from the crowd and wont tick the right boxes. Quite possible having only 2 strong ones will still leave you in the B Grades. I do know pers who have had specs and ended up in the Bs

In terms of personnel who PVR being offered promotion and then accept it, I dont really see where the problem is, the majority of the PVRs that I have seen generally centre around lack of promotion, career opportunities and dont say I'm leaving because the Air Force is Sh1te (i am taking the mick slightly on the last bit). Now someone PVRs for that reason and is subsequently offered promotion with a posting well that answers their concerns and they decide to stay in because hey they got promoted and they are being offered a career opportunity. It has been done to death somewhere else a long time ago about how committed someone is if they PVR but I personally dont see the issue as they've still earnt it.[/quote]

Excellent point there. Some very good people chuck in the towel, just because the RAF doesn't match their ambitions (and in some cases, their potential). If the RAF offered me the right sort of career progression (not promotion to Corporal BTW) then I may think twice about my PVR. It doesn't, so I have put the PVR in to start a career elsewhere with the hope that I can get on with the next thing I choose.

As an aside, I can agree that poorly written appraisals don't help very much. I've had two weak 6000s (not so much content, more writing style) which, looking back, were not a true reflection (in my eyes) of how I had performed that year.

This years assessment was much better, the content was pretty much the same but having a 1st RO who can write assessments is a godsend.

Chin up and stick at it mate, hopefully with all the PVRs going in you'll get there sooner rather than later! DT_Xtremez_28:

 

[Mickwreay]

now i might sound like a wingeing sac here and i think to an extent i am.

ive been out of training 6 years now (coming up to 11 years total) and i think ive had some ok assesments (3 rec, 4 rec, 3 rec, 5 high, a- high, a- high)

im not even making an A grade with these.

there are people i know of been in less(a lot less) with similar assesements and are getting there tapes??

there is one lad who turned his down , pvr'd as the raf was ****e blah blah, couldnt get a job so asked to be let back in and he has just come off the board!!! .

where am i going wrong ffs??

cheers

renton

Work work work!

This is the ONLY reason your 1st RO should give you a good report, I have written dozens of reports and got many lads promoted, who are primarily, very good at their job!

Secondary duties are fine but you should do them for the right reasons!

I don’t know you mate but it’s easy as a SNCO to write a GREY report that you will feel happy with! I’m not saying this is what happened to you but it does happen all the time!

My pointers are:-
Do I need to ask him/her twice?
Can he/she, do the job of next rank up comfortably?
Is he/she a skiver?
What do other SNCOs have to say about them?
Are they routinely trying to get an early stack?
If given a job, I know it’s been done!

Promotion offers to people who have pvr’d should still take place IMO, as the lack of promotion may well be their reason for leaving.

Keep working hard and it will happen.

 

[Kernow]

TBH it does sound (please remember i havent seen them) like your appraisals just have not been strong enough in terms of content. It wont matter if you have a secondary duty if the narrative is poorly written. You just wont stand out from the crowd and wont tick the right boxes. Quite possible having only 2 strong ones will still leave you in the B Grades. I do know pers who have had specs and ended up in the Bs

In terms of personnel who PVR being offered promotion and then accept it, I dont really see where the problem is, the majority of the PVRs that I have seen generally centre around lack of promotion, career opportunities and dont say I'm leaving because the Air Force is Sh1te (i am taking the mick slightly on the last bit). Now someone PVRs for that reason and is subsequently offered promotion with a posting well that answers their concerns and they decide to stay in because hey they got promoted and they are being offered a career opportunity. It has been done to death somewhere else a long time ago about how committed someone is if they PVR but I personally dont see the issue as they've still earnt it.[/quote]

Excellent point there. Some very good people chuck in the towel, just because the RAF doesn't match their ambitions (and in some cases, their potential). If the RAF offered me the right sort of career progression (not promotion to Corporal BTW) then I may think twice about my PVR. It doesn't, so I have put the PVR in to start a career elsewhere with the hope that I can get on with the next thing I choose.

As an aside, I can agree that poorly written appraisals don't help very much. I've had two weak 6000s (not so much content, more writing style) which, looking back, were not a true reflection (in my eyes) of how I had performed that year.

This years assessment was much better, the content was pretty much the same but having a 1st RO who can write assessments is a godsend.

Chin up and stick at it mate, hopefully with all the PVRs going in you'll get there sooner rather than later! DT_Xtremez_28:

Unless they are all offered promotion of course (sorry couldntresist that one)

 

[metimmee]

It may be that a third year of decent assessments is the trick...Just because there is a shortage of on-camp mil orientated secondary duties does not mean there aren't any secondary duties...Think of Round Table/SSAFA/TRBL/Cubs/Scouts/Cadets/PTA etc.

Try to do something that cant be seen as self-serving e.g. Say if you had a kid who played football for the local team and you helped to coach them that can be construed as being self-serving and therefore not a good 2nd'ary duty...Apply that rationale to your situation and choose wisely and quickly...Something involving the handling of money is the best...

You may and probably are the greatest one of whatever you are and do but there will be another 8 dozen just as great as you...As much as it pains me to say this it's what you do extra that will make you stand out...

As for the PVR'ing then taking promotion thing...Nobody ever said that life in the mob was going to be fair or even make sense!

Good luck...

In my view, picking the right secondary duties is more important now than with the F6000. The duty must compliment what the subject is good at, or show-off something that the primary duty does not. Like Mickwreay said, be good at the job and shine. In practice the 1st RO should really have to lever-in the secondary duty into the main narrative/potential if you give him enough to write about. For a really good candidate, 1850 characters isn't a lot of room.

I'm a firm believer in having the brass-neck to tell your 1st RO what you expect in your appraisal during your mid-term interview. "I'm really keen to get promoted, I think I am ready, this is what I am doing about it" - keeping to the fore what you are doing and making your 1st RO focus on whether or not you are on-track to achieve what you want. Its not a case of "look at me look at me", its quietly getting on with your job and role within the team whilst making sure its noticed. If your achievement is shared - make sure the others get the credit that is due.

Keep a 'boast-sheet' throughout the year (I keep mine as a note in outlook) as and when you do things that are worthy of note. Careful here, since 1st RO needs to be in tune with what you are trying to do in presenting a long list of stuff that he may not deem worthy of inclusion...that's fine because he can ignore what he doesn't use. Lots of small things can demonstrate a larger point. By doing this throughout the year, you'll have it all to hand and impress your 1st RO when you hand him a piece of paper with your achievements on 10 mins after he asked. Present it in DW format like a LM, even if you don't normally use DW. It may not get into your assessments, but it will be another thing that Renton can do, and will add polish. I was amazed how many folk on JMLC couldn't write a loose minute or a memo....and IMLC if I am honest. Your 1st RO (should!) be grateful if you give him some good material to get the juices flowing.

You are being promoted against your peers in the whole of the RAF not just your section - but for a 1st/2nd RO to say "Out of 10 SACs Renton is the most
effective by far....blah..blah" is a powerful statement that jumps out of the page, and one to aim for...whilst still keeping friends!

Be a positive and cooperative within the team and seek improvement. As an SAC you can do an OJT course. Once thats complete, you can try and eek out a role for yourself - perhaps helping with OJT with junior members of the section. Think, next rank and try to be a Cpl in everything but the rank you wear, have the attitude of a good JNCO.

Dont get involved in nastiness and back-stabbing, it gets noticed. Being positive when things are sh!t is an important one and will get you noticed, do it with conviction though and not just when you are being watched. What your peers think of you is a big factor and if they see that it wont go down well.

Avoid "other shiftisms" and generally give folk the benefit of the doubt if you can eg. when you arrive and the place is in a tip or there is loads of work on - it may be that they;ve had a crap shift where nothings gone right, we've all had them. Yes they may have left a load of work, but that is what you are paid to do and while everyone else is bellyaching, just get on with it.

Leave all your whinging for the 'goat!

There are others on this board better qualified and more experienced than myself and this is only how I see things. Best of luck.

 

[muttywhitedog]

ive been out of training 6 years now (coming up to 11 years total) and i think ive had some ok assesments (3 rec, 4 rec, 3 rec, 5 high, a- high, a- high)

im not even making an A grade with these.

You allude that you have been in your present post since last Oct - I assume that your last A-High was your on posting report in lieu of your 2009 one.

If thats the case, your last promotion board would have seen 3 rec, 5 high, a-high, and it may well be that there were a whole load of people who would have had a better assessment than a 3 to go with a couple of 5s or a-'s.

I would think that with a 5 high and 2 x a- highs, you should be an A grade candidate at your next promotion board, which will take place around 6 months after your normal reporting date.

And like others have said, there is very little room these days for much comment to be made on secondary duties - 1850 characters is used up very quickly if you are a very good tradesman, so punchy phrases rather than sentences are key to getting everything in. My method of writing them is to put the summary as the first line of the text and it has worked as my Cpl got high up on the psl in her first time of being an A grade candidate.

Good luck on the next board!

 

[renton]

thanks for all the level headed replys fellas!!DT_Xtremez_30:DT_Xtremez_30:

ive nothing against the guy who pvr'd then took his tapes as i think he is a sound bloke , its the system that i find baffleing ??

on my las assesement the 1st ro made a comment along the lines of......

sac renton has upped his game so much it has made his peers question there own abilities throughout this reporting period blah blah blah.

does that sound stand out enough?

 

[Downsizer]

Are you a JT or an SAC(T)?

 

[The Masked Geek]

In my view, picking the right secondary duties is more important now than with the F6000.

Having never had a proper secondary duty in my life, I can dismiss this as bollox.

As managers, if we cannot put our guys in situations that afford them the opportunities required to showcase their ability and potential then we have failed them.

Asking them to undertake duties outside of their primary, to make up for your own failing, is shameful.

 

[The Masked Geek]

sac renton has upped his game so much it has made his peers question there own abilities throughout this reporting period blah blah blah.

does that sound stand out enough?

On it's own, no. It needs examples of the times that you showed this extreme "up game-ed-ness".

And, to be fair, I would have saved myself a few characters by going with:

SAC Renton is the best of my 7 SACs.

Then using the line saved to give solid examples of why.

 

[vim_fuego]

thanks for all the level headed replys fellas!!DT_Xtremez_30:DT_Xtremez_30:

ive nothing against the guy who pvr'd then took his tapes as i think he is a sound bloke , its the system that i find baffleing ??

on my las assesement the 1st ro made a comment along the lines of......

sac renton has upped his game so much it has made his peers question there own abilities throughout this reporting period blah blah blah.does that sound stand out enough?

I would say that this is the start of a promising period for SAC Renton but I'd want to see another year of solid results as it intimates he wasn't very effective in the reporting period before...

It's all in the wording...

How about:


Renton has had an excellent year in the section. His professional effectiveness and work ethics make him stand out as the most knowledgable and trustworthy of the 8 sac's we have on strength. His determined attitude to his duties has had a positive effect on his peers which has been noted and highly commended by his immediate supervisors...

That took me 5 mins to write whilst eating my sugarpuffs but it says the same thing without the 'negative' of intimating you were perhaps less effective last year...

You have to own your SJAR to a greater extent...as has been said before sit down and talk through with your report writer what you want and need...ask him what he wants to see and give him what he wants...

I hear what some say about being good at your primary duties...I agree in a perfect world but in this imperfect SJAR poxed world it's what you do outside of them that sets you aide from the rest...I've talked to thosewho sit on the boards and thats what they reported back as of last June...

 

[metimmee]

Having never had a proper secondary duty in my life, I can dismiss this as bollox.

As managers, if we cannot put our guys in situations that afford them the opportunities required to showcase their ability and potential then we have failed them.

Asking them to undertake duties outside of their primary, to make up for your own failing, is shameful.

Well, as stated, your mileage may vary and its only an opinion, you have to play the promotion game as you see fit. As a JT and Cpl I did have secondary duties but chose them carefully to showcase what I was about, and hopefully what the PB was looking for.

What did your 1st RO write in the secondary duty box on your F6000? If it was “no time for secondary duties, deployed to the pointy end”, then great – but what about those that did have time – like myself?

If you can stretch and showcase our guy’s abilities within the work then that obviously that has to be preferable, I am not sure this is always possible. As I said in my last post, within the 1850 characters, if you are assessing a good candidate the secondary duty really has to be a good one (and relevant) to appear in the narratives. If it isnt worthy of inclusion then it wont appear – hence my assertion that it is more important now to choose wisely. It wasn’t as important with the F6000 since there was always space to mention them within the secondary duty block.

One of my former colleagues was a JT who was into motor sport, he did OJT in the bay and was good at his job, he’d also been waiting for years for promotion. He ended up organising motor sport rallies. If you are telling me that a line such as “Jnr Tech Smith’s organisational skills are exceptional as demonstrated when he organised a successful motor-sport event with 80 competitors, 50 marshals and 3000 spectators.” isnt going to benefit the candidate then we’ll have to agree to differ. At unit level, that would be a JO role that a Jnr Tech wouldn’t get close to.

I’ve never failed any of my guys thank you. If a candidate wishes to take control of their own destiny and stretch himself and take on additional duties then good luck to them.

 

[Downsizer]

You could be in with a good chance this year renton, rumour I hear is 70 people...