RAFFT Failures, are they being booted out

[GOV1]

Question for the Adminers and the Muscle Mechanics, really the legal peeps.

I have two long term fitness failures on my watch

Both are on the new system with the 12 week MMA and now after another 12 weeks failed again so the formal warning. Are they really being kicked out. Both are gym fanatics (got the gym key proof and done the PTI remedial programme) but somehow cannot pass.

Where do they stand ?

Answers would be good

 

[GOV1]

Passing the RAFFT

Passing the RAFFT

Question for all you fellow stackers out there, really the legal peeps.

I have two long term fitness failures in my section.

Both have had the 12 week MMA and now after another 12 weeks failed, so the formal warning has been given.

Are they really being kicked out. Both are gym freaks (got the gym key proof and done the PTI remedial programme) but somehow cannot pass.

Where do they stand ?

Answers would be good

 

[UlsterExile]

You really have to ask yourself, if they are gym freaks then why are they not passsing. When they are at the gym are they really working their bollo*ks off or going through the motions.

Question for you, have you been to the gym with them to witness their participation. If not may I suggest you do, and if yes then how much effort are they putting in. They may be sweating but are they really trying?

Had a case, person was on remedial but knew they were never going to pass, this was clearly evident as a not much progress being made. Did all the stuff PTI's wanted and more, but was just going through the motions. So they went to the good ol Doc's with a problem and managed to get put on to the bike test.

I take it your two do not have the morals of a gutter rat, and are willing not to do that. I believe the Stn Cdr has a say wether he thinks they should go or not come next failure.

I hope you can encourage them to put a bit more effort in and finally pass. I take it they are younger generation? I may or may not be have been of any help but rest assured you are not alone in this.

One last question are they good stackers and worth keeping, if not then let nature take it's course.

 

[muttywhitedog]

Two individuals from my section have been discharged this year. One had a lousy attitude to his fitness and dint really care if he stayed or went. The other tried and tried but just couldnt get to whatever it was he had to (9:10 I think).

The 2nd lad knew the writing was on the wall and got himself a job lined up for when judgement day came.

 

[OK..Igiveup]

yes - but for what reason

yes - but for what reason

Two individuals from my section have been discharged this year. One had a lousy attitude to his fitness and dint really care if he stayed or went. The other tried and tried but just couldnt get to whatever it was he had to (9:10 I think).

The 2nd lad knew the writing was on the wall and got himself a job lined up for when judgement day came.

How can they kick him out for attitude to fitness? As been said before are they being kicked out for attitude (then fair enough) or unable to acheive a standard (physical issues) if it's the latter then should be med'd out.

 

[PTR Hoar]

How can they kick him out for attitude to fitness? As been said before are they being kicked out for attitude (then fair enough) or unable to acheive a standard (physical issues) if it's the latter then should be med'd out.

Because as they put on their MAA's and FW the fact that they cannot pass the RAFFT shows they have a poor attitude towards fitness. As i found when i got my MAA, i threw it back and said i wasnt signing it because i know, and my management know, that i did not have a poor attitude towards fitness.

I'm RAFFT current now before anyone has a go

 

[mememe]

There is an SO1 at Air Command with the evidence that WAS NOT presented to the legals when they were deciding on whether discharge was possible in cases of failure, this SO1 said to me that if it was then no one would be binned. Certain people have the physiological make up that deems them pre-disposed to not passing this, probably a good case above when the guy tried and tried. Getting kicked out for attitude is completely different. We should re-brand the RAFFT to RAF attitude test.

 

[magic]

As I understand it, if they show a positive attitude they will not be thrown out? Different units will take a different perspective on it. This in itself leaves the whole set up open for claims etc.
Take a look at the stats, officers to airmen discharged through failing the test. How many officers have failed and still in?

My take on it is, if they fail the test yet are attempting to get fit to pass it then fine. As long as they are good trades people then fine. What gets my grip is when we get these lazy sh##es who get downgraded and don't deploy hence making the turnaround times even quicker for medically fit people.

If you fail the AFT you still deploy. So what if someone can't run up and down the gym and do 40 press ups. If they turn up for work and do a good days work and carry out ALL the duties, what is the problem? As I have mentioned, it is the sickies who get my gripe who do no duties and don't deploy! End of rant.

PS: Currently in date fitness wise and have hit the blue so only take it every 12 months.

 

[Realist78]

As I understand it, if they show a positive attitude they will not be thrown out? Different units will take a different perspective on it. This in itself leaves the whole set up open for claims etc.
Take a look at the stats, officers to airmen discharged through failing the test. How many officers have failed and still in?

My take on it is, if they fail the test yet are attempting to get fit to pass it then fine. As long as they are good trades people then fine. What gets my grip is when we get these lazy sh##es who get downgraded and don't deploy hence making the turnaround times even quicker for medically fit people.

If you fail the AFT you still deploy. So what if someone can't run up and down the gym and do 40 press ups. If they turn up for work and do a good days work and carry out ALL the duties, what is the problem? As I have mentioned, it is the sickies who get my gripe who do no duties and don't deploy! End of rant.

PS: Currently in date fitness wise and have hit the blue so only take it every 12 months.

Take a look here http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/raf_fitness_testing#incoming-86600http://www.e-goat.co.uk/forums/E-Go...Network forums > The Shop Floor > Service Gen

 

[grey haired chiefy]

Fitness test the sickies

Fitness test the sickies

As I understand it, if they show a positive attitude they will not be thrown out? Different units will take a different perspective on it. This in itself leaves the whole set up open for claims etc.
Take a look at the stats, officers to airmen discharged through failing the test. How many officers have failed and still in?

My take on it is, if they fail the test yet are attempting to get fit to pass it then fine. As long as they are good trades people then fine. What gets my grip is when we get these lazy sh##es who get downgraded and don't deploy hence making the turnaround times even quicker for medically fit people.

If you fail the AFT you still deploy. So what if someone can't run up and down the gym and do 40 press ups. If they turn up for work and do a good days work and carry out ALL the duties, what is the problem? As I have mentioned, it is the sickies who get my gripe who do no duties and don't deploy! End of rant.

PS: Currently in date fitness wise and have hit the blue so only take it every 12 months.

You really should engage your brain before typing this drivel and get your facts straight.

I assure you this is not the case. As one of these sickies (your words not mine) who cannot now undertake the test or the bike test (you still need to do the sit-ups which due to the injury I sustained cannot now do) I am permanently downgraded due to guess what!! Yes the fitness test itself.

I was endeavoring to give best effort during the sit ups and irreparably injured my back leading to downgrade. Is that my fault for trying too hard NO, it is a requirement of my service that I undertake the test and pass.

After 30, years’ service and numerous deployments, which by the way I can still undertake but require risk assessment being carried out to make sure the post is suitable. I carry out the full range of duties expected of me and secondary duties besides. Even though I am downgraded I was still offered continuance and feel I give the same today as I did 30 years ago.

Do not tie all people downgraded with the sick lame and lazy brush which your statement makes this is not the case. There are genuine sickies out there. I did the test got injured, and now have a so called glass back which will be with me for the rest of my life. No medical pension will be forthcoming either as the RAF say I cannot prove the injury occurred during the test and it is age related and part of the age degeneration.

The main questions I think need asking are:
How many people have been injured or existing injuries made worse by the test?
How many tests are been conducted correctly and not just for stats reasons in large numbers twice a year?
How many people do not undertake the test.?
Is this the test fit for purpose? All the medics I spoke to said that the test itself is flawed and can lead to injury by its very nature?

Rant mode off!!

 

[metimmee]

I assure you this is not the case. As one of these sickies (your words not mine) who cannot now undertake the test or the bike test (you still need to do the sit-ups which due to the injury I sustained cannot now do) I am permanently downgraded due to guess what!! Yes the fitness test itself.

Were you situp fit before you attemped the test or was it your 6 monthly attempt at undertaking situps?

 

[grey haired chiefy]

Normal annual test before it became 6 monthly.

 

[busby1971]

After 30, years’ service and numerous deployments, which by the way I can still undertake but require risk assessment being carried out to make sure the post is suitable. I carry out the full range of duties expected of me and secondary duties besides. Even though I am downgraded I was still offered continuance and feel I give the same today as I did 30 years ago.

Do not tie all people downgraded with the sick lame and lazy brush which your statement makes this is not the case. There are genuine sickies out there. I did the test got injured, and now have a so called glass back which will be with me for the rest of my life. No medical pension will be forthcoming either as the RAF say I cannot prove the injury occurred during the test and it is age related and part of the age degeneration.

Rant mode off!!

I think it doesn't matter what the RAF have said, get it documented and ask for a referral. It comes down to what you can prove you might get war pension/compensation as this is quite easy to prove however a medical discharge may be harder to get.

I'd be seeking advice if I were you as once the RAF has had it's pound of flesh it really doesn't care what you do, and will try to save money rather than treat you correctly.

 

[magic]

GHC - Don't take my posting personally. I think we all know the kind of person I am referring to.

 

[Little Tronk]

A 'positive attitude' means that that person has improved by 25% over his/her last attempt.

I know I have been through it.

Positive attitude does not mean slogging your guts out AT LEAST 3 times a week, modifying your diet such that you lose weight and achieve 0.4% short of a 'very healthy' BMI or stopping smoking.

Don't improve by 25% - bad attitude, period.

 

[The Masked Geek]

I was endeavoring to give best effort during the sit ups and irreparably injured my back leading to downgrade. Is that my fault for trying too hard NO, it is a requirement of my service that I undertake the test and pass.

By "best effort", do you mean a pass or trying to get as many as you could beyond a pass?

Your answer will form the basis of the answer to "is that my fault".

 

[Mickwreay]

You really should engage your brain before typing this drivel and get your facts straight.

I assure you this is not the case. As one of these sickies (your words not mine) who cannot now undertake the test or the bike test (you still need to do the sit-ups which due to the injury I sustained cannot now do) I am permanently downgraded due to guess what!! Yes the fitness test itself.

I was endeavoring to give best effort during the sit ups and irreparably injured my back leading to downgrade. Is that my fault for trying too hard NO, it is a requirement of my service that I undertake the test and pass.

After 30, years’ service and numerous deployments, which by the way I can still undertake but require risk assessment being carried out to make sure the post is suitable. I carry out the full range of duties expected of me and secondary duties besides. Even though I am downgraded I was still offered continuance and feel I give the same today as I did 30 years ago.

Do not tie all people downgraded with the sick lame and lazy brush which your statement makes this is not the case. There are genuine sickies out there. I did the test got injured, and now have a so called glass back which will be with me for the rest of my life. No medical pension will be forthcoming either as the RAF say I cannot prove the injury occurred during the test and it is age related and part of the age degeneration.

The main questions I think need asking are:
How many people have been injured or existing injuries made worse by the test?
How many tests are been conducted correctly and not just for stats reasons in large numbers twice a year?
How many people do not undertake the test.?
Is this the test fit for purpose? All the medics I spoke to said that the test itself is flawed and can lead to injury by its very nature?

Rant mode off!!

Well said sir!!

When the Beep test first arrived in the late 80s early 90s I pulled up early as it was hurting my knees. What a wimp eh?

Well not really, a few weeks beforehand I had completed one of my 15 Great North Runs.........pushing a muscular dystrophy sufferer in under 2:30.

Crap test, badly run......blah blah

 

[Trusty Adjusty]

Well well - hasn't this become a touchy subject for some!

Indeed, in the MOD/Governments cash strapped/penny pinching times we must all be aware that it really doesn't matter if you are showing a "positive attitude" or not. If you fail to meet the new requirements - remedial/retest etc, you are an easy - and more importantly CHEAP way to reduce a wage bill that is need (rightly or wrongly) of a good chopping (allegedly).

I have worked, and currently work with, VERY good tradesmen - some of whom will fall foul of this underhand and blatantly obvious wage bill saving measure. All of whom display a first rate attitude to personal fitness that I have witnessed first hand. For some reason - they cannot seem to get over the finish line and it would be a crying shame to see any of them shown the door.

We should be trying to instill positive attitude in those who struggle - not shooting them down at the first opportunity. Many become so demoralised at the stigma that engulfs them that any fight they did have has long since been sapped away.

There are of course those who do have a poor attitude, and it is up to experienced Phys staff and line managers to weed out the rubbish. The system HAS to be on a case by case basis - SJAR's/line managers etc must be consulted to gain an accurate picture of a subjects "attitude" -

unless of course you just want to save a few quid and don't care

Aaaannnd we've come full circle!

 

[I`m Ron Burgundy?]

Under 2 years to go...tick tock, tick tock...and none of this ridiculous rubbish will ever matter again, I sometimes forget that there is a whole world out there not subject to this entire cretinous, badly thought out system.

 

[ForgottenName]

One of the reasons I left at age 52 after suffering an injury on my ankle and then being told that I had high blood pressure (and suffering the side effects of the medication). Now out in civvy street - life is much harder, but at least I am the master of my own destiny to a greater extent.